Australias Oldest Land Rover

**wrinklearthur** · 11th March 2013, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by series1buff

Did anyone spot the DIRECTIONAL chevron pattern bar tread tyres on that pre pro vehicle ?
During WW2 , these tyres were common on military trucks . They were initially fitted with the V pointing forwards, but an official memorandum printed, wanted them fitted the other way around , the mud tended to be flung out better.

Hi Mike

The split rims were designed for fitting the tractor tread tyres.

Those patterns are directional best fitted that way shown in the photo for maximum traction in loam or clay soils, but in sand they need to be fitted around the other way, as the tread gathers the sand and helps stop the tyre digging in.

On four wheel drive tractor the front tyres are some times fitted for hill work, around the other way, one reason is to reduce skipping going uphill with a full draught load, then to give better grip for the tractor to hold back on engine braking when heading down hill and for less wear travelling on hard surface or bitumen roads, as the tyre is rolling not pulling .

That directive by a desk jockey that could only drive a pencil, may have been more to do with reducing tyre wear than a misguided attempt to gain more traction, unless it was for Land Rovers operating in desert country (sand), then the directive would be perfectly understandable.

Under certain circumstances at a particular level of moisture of damp clay, it is possible to have clay fill up the tread and then not clear.
By reversing the tread pattern the tyre isn't able to bite into the damp soil as much, so not filling the tread fully giving to chance to throw the build up out.

In Australian conditions where it's more likely to be stony or dry loose soil country, the V on top of the rear tyre, should point forward to the direction of travel. Please yourself which way around the tread for front tyre should operate for the same reasons I have listed about farm tractor tyres.
.

**Lotz-A-Landies** · 11th March 2013, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by series1buff

Did anyone spot the DIRECTIONAL chevron pattern bar tread tyres on that pre pro vehicle ?

During WW2 , these tyres were common on military trucks . They were initially fitted with the V pointing forwards, but an official memorandum printed, wanted them fitted the other way around , the mud tended to be flung out better

Mike

The traditional thinking in farming terms is that on driven wheels the "arrow" should point forward on the top of the wheel and on non driven wheels (steer and on trailers) the arrow should point to the rear. This was supposed to create most traction and less tendency to break the surface with the non-driven wheels. The MoD simply followed this on 4WD assuming the front wheels to be driven.

It was the Canadians who were most likely to have the front tyres the other way around, probably because they have more experience with snow and mud.

BTW: I think you will find the tyres to be Dunlop T28 Trakgrip pattern.

**wrinklearthur** · 12th March 2013, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by wrinklearthur

Were there any of the first production painted off white or a light grey ?

Inc has posted a picture of what appears to be that grey colour but I remembered it as a lot more faded towards white.

Seriously Series! Pics from the net thread......

.

**bobslandies** · 12th March 2013, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by wrinklearthur

Inc has posted a picture of what appears to be that grey colour but I remembered it as a lot more faded towards white.

Seriously Series! Pics from the net thread......

.

Hi Arthur,

The Pre Production, 1948 and early 1949 vehicles were light green (real Rover talk) in colour. Someone will soon come along and tell us it was sage green but I think it may have been Tony Hutchins that coined that term.
There is also reference to Green No 2 in some very early vehicles.
A close approximation is Colorbond "Rivergum" for those conversant with that colour. (I think they have renamed it to "Wildeness" now).

See here:
Colour Centre: Standard Range

It is entirely possible that the colour could have faded and gone chalky to look grey/white.

Bob

**Yorkshire_Jon** · 13th March 2013, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by bobslandies

Hi Arthur,

The Pre Production, 1948 and early 1949 vehicles were light green (real Rover talk) in colour. Someone will soon come along and tell us it was sage green but I think it may have been Tony Hutchins that coined that term.
There is also reference to Green No 2 in some very early vehicles.
A close approximation is Colorbond "Rivergum" for those conversant with that colour. (I think they have renamed it to "Wildeness" now).

See here:
Colour Centre: Standard Range

It is entirely possible that the colour could have faded and gone chalky to look grey/white.

Bob

I recently viewed 2 early 49's (both owned by close friends), both originally the 'sage green', the only difference one had been fully restored, the other had the original bodywork and never been touched (body / paint wise). The un-touched one was much more white/grey than green... And no I wast looking at the bare ally!

Two pics attached.
Jon

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**wrinklearthur** · 13th March 2013, 10:07 AM

Land Rover Parts Catalogue, Part No 4051 7th Edition, Technical Publication No TP111/G,
1948 - 53 Series I Models, Section I 1948 - 51 Models, Section II 1952 - 53 Models and Section III Extra Equipment,
(Applicable to all Models) and special vehicles.

In the section, 1948 - 53 Series I Models, Section I 1948 - 51 Models, listed on page 179, Trimming Raw Materials;

Special paint, Green . 1 pint ... tin ... ... 262069
Special paint, Green . 1 gallon.. tin ... ... 262072

Special paint, Ivory .. 1 pint ... tin ... ... 261887
Special paint, Ivory .. 1 gallon.. tin ... ... 261902

Special paint, Blue ... 1 pint ... tin ... ... 244272
Special paint, Blue ... 1 gallon.. tin ... ... 244275

Special paint, Red .... 1 pint ... tin ... ... 244276
Special paint, Red .... 1 gallon.. tin ... ... 244279

Special paint, Beige ... 1 pint ... tin ... ... 244280
Special paint, Beige ... 1 gallon.. tin ... ... 244823

Special paint, Grey .... 1 pint .. tin ... ... 244284
Special paint, Grey .... 1 gallon tin ... ... 244287

That is the list of paints available to repair Land Rovers 1948 - 52 and is the same list of paints for 1952 - 53, page 148.

The listing changes in my copy of;
Land Rover Parts Catalogue, Part No 4107, 3rd Edition June 1956, Technical Publication No TP155/C, Series I, 86, 88, 107 and 109, page 328, Trimming Raw Materials;

Special paint, dark green.. 1 pint .. tin ... 262069
Special paint, dark green ..1 quart. tin ... 262070
Special paint, dark green . ½ gallon tin ... 262071
Special paint, dark green ..1 gallon tin ... 262072

Special paint, Ivory.. 1 pint .. tin ... ... 262643
Special paint, Ivory.. 1 quart. tin ... ... 262644
Special paint, Ivory. ½ gallon tin ... ... 262645
Special paint, Ivory.. 1 gallon tin ... ... 262646

Special paint, Blue .. 1 pint .. tin ... ... 244272
Special paint, Blue .. 1 quart. tin ... ... 244273
Special paint, Blue . ½ gallon tin ... ... 244274
Special paint, Blue .. 1 gallon tin ... ... 244275

Special paint, Red ... 1 pint .. tin ... ... 244276
Special paint, Red ... 1 quart. tin ... ... 244277
Special paint, Red .. ½ gallon tin ... ... 244278
Special paint, Red ... 1 gallon tin ... ... 244279

Special paint, Beige .. 1 pint .. tin ... ... 244280
Special paint, Beige .. 1 quart. tin ... ... 244281
Special paint, Beige . ½ gallon tin ... ... 244282
Special paint, Beige .. 1 gallon tin ... ... 244823

Special paint, Grey .. 1 pint .. tin ... ... 244284
Special paint, Grey ..1 quart. tin ... ... 244285
Special paint, Grey ..½ gallon tin ... ... 244286
Special paint, Grey .. 1 gallon tin ... ... 244287

The listing changes again in my copy of;
Land Rover Parts Catalogue, Part No 4107, 2nd Revision October, 1961, Technical Publication No TP155/E, Series I, 86, 88, 107 and 109, Petrol and Diesel models.

listed on page 418, Trimming Raw Materials;

Special paint, bronze green 1 pint .. tin . 262069
Special paint, bronze green 1 gallon. tin . 262072

Special paint, Ivory.. ... ... 1 pint .. tin ... 261887
Special paint, Ivory.. ... ... 1 quart. tin ... 262644
Special paint, Ivory.. ... ... 1 gallon. tin ... 261902

Special paint, R.A.F. Blue .. 1 pint .. tin ... 244272
Special paint, R.A.F. Blue .. 1 gallon. tin ... 244275

Special paint, Poppy Red ... 1 pint .. tin ... 244276
Special paint, Poppy Red ... 1 gallon tin ... 244279

Special paint, Beige .. ... ... 1 pint .. tin ... 244280
Special paint, Beige .. ... ... 1 gallon. tin ... 244283

Special paint, Grey ... ... ... 1 pint .. tin ... 244284
Special paint, Grey ... ... ... 1 gallon. tin ... 244287

**wrinklearthur** · 13th March 2013, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Yorkshire_Jon

--- the other had the original bodywork and never been touched (body / paint wise). The un-touched one was much more white/grey than green... And no I wast looking at the bare ally!

Hi Jon

It does take a bit to convince some on these pages, they don't have all the answers !

Special paint, Grey .... 1 pint .. tin ... ... 244284
Special paint, Grey .... 1 gallon tin ... ... 244287

The Les Wells 80" was originally a light Grey.
.

**Yorkshire_Jon** · 13th March 2013, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by wrinklearthur

Hi Jon

It does take a bit to convince some on these pages, they don't have all the answers !

The Les Wells 80" was originally a light Grey.
.

Arthur,
The 80 in the attached was definately more green than grey when I walked around it. The front of the front wings and the bonnet just anage to indicate the greenness, or lack of it now! Indeed, it never even entered my head that it could of once been anything other than green.

The reason I posted the 2 pics was to hi-light how the paintwork changes over 64 years!

Les Wells? Apologies for my lack of knowledge, but who's Les Wells?

Thx
Jon

**Lotz-A-Landies** · 13th March 2013, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by wrinklearthur

Land Rover Parts Catalogue, Part No 4051 7th Edition, Technical Publication No TP111/G,
1948 - 53 Series I Models, Section I 1948 - 51 Models, Section II 1952 - 53 Models and Section III Extra Equipment,
(Applicable to all Models) and special vehicles.

In the section, 1948 - 53 Series I Models, Section I 1948 - 51 Models, listed on page 179, Trimming Raw Materials;

....

Now just try to get someone to do a correct tint of a gallon tin Rover part No. 262072 today?

**bobslandies** · 13th March 2013, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by wrinklearthur

Land Rover Parts Catalogue, Part No 4051 7th Edition, Technical Publication No TP111/G,
1948 - 53 Series I Models, Section I 1948 - 51 Models, Section II 1952 - 53 Models and Section III Extra Equipment,
(Applicable to all Models) and special vehicles.

In the section, 1948 - 53 Series I Models, Section I 1948 - 51 Models, listed on page 179, Trimming Raw Materials;

Special paint, Green . 1 pint ... tin ... ... 262069
Special paint, Green . 1 gallon.. tin ... ... 262072

Special paint, Ivory .. 1 pint ... tin ... ... 261887
Special paint, Ivory .. 1 gallon.. tin ... ... 261902

Special paint, Blue ... 1 pint ... tin ... ... 244272
Special paint, Blue ... 1 gallon.. tin ... ... 244275

Special paint, Red .... 1 pint ... tin ... ... 244276
Special paint, Red .... 1 gallon.. tin ... ... 244279

Special paint, Beige ... 1 pint ... tin ... ... 244280
Special paint, Beige ... 1 gallon.. tin ... ... 244823

Special paint, Grey .... 1 pint .. tin ... ... 244284
Special paint, Grey .... 1 gallon tin ... ... 244287

That is the list of paints available to repair Land Rovers 1948 - 52 and is the same list of paints for 1952 - 53, page 148.

The listing changes in my copy of;
Land Rover Parts Catalogue, Part No 4107, 3rd Edition June 1956, Technical Publication No TP155/C, Series I, 86, 88, 107 and 109, page 328, Trimming Raw Materials;

Special paint, dark green.. 1 pint .. tin ... 262069
Special paint, dark green ..1 quart. tin ... 262070
Special paint, dark green . ½ gallon tin ... 262071
Special paint, dark green ..1 gallon tin ... 262072

Special paint, Ivory.. 1 pint .. tin ... ... 262643
Special paint, Ivory.. 1 quart. tin ... ... 262644
Special paint, Ivory. ½ gallon tin ... ... 262645
Special paint, Ivory.. 1 gallon tin ... ... 262646

Special paint, Blue .. 1 pint .. tin ... ... 244272
Special paint, Blue .. 1 quart. tin ... ... 244273
Special paint, Blue . ½ gallon tin ... ... 244274
Special paint, Blue .. 1 gallon tin ... ... 244275

Special paint, Red ... 1 pint .. tin ... ... 244276
Special paint, Red ... 1 quart. tin ... ... 244277
Special paint, Red .. ½ gallon tin ... ... 244278
Special paint, Red ... 1 gallon tin ... ... 244279

Special paint, Beige .. 1 pint .. tin ... ... 244280
Special paint, Beige .. 1 quart. tin ... ... 244281
Special paint, Beige . ½ gallon tin ... ... 244282
Special paint, Beige .. 1 gallon tin ... ... 244823

Special paint, Grey .. 1 pint .. tin ... ... 244284
Special paint, Grey ..1 quart. tin ... ... 244285
Special paint, Grey ..½ gallon tin ... ... 244286
Special paint, Grey .. 1 gallon tin ... ... 244287

The listing changes again in my copy of;
Land Rover Parts Catalogue, Part No 4107, 2nd Revision October, 1961, Technical Publication No TP155/E, Series I, 86, 88, 107 and 109, Petrol and Diesel models.

listed on page 418, Trimming Raw Materials;

Special paint, bronze green 1 pint .. tin . 262069
Special paint, bronze green 1 gallon. tin . 262072

Special paint, Ivory.. ... ... 1 pint .. tin ... 261887
Special paint, Ivory.. ... ... 1 quart. tin ... 262644
Special paint, Ivory.. ... ... 1 gallon. tin ... 261902

Special paint, R.A.F. Blue .. 1 pint .. tin ... 244272
Special paint, R.A.F. Blue .. 1 gallon. tin ... 244275

Special paint, Poppy Red ... 1 pint .. tin ... 244276
Special paint, Poppy Red ... 1 gallon tin ... 244279

Special paint, Beige .. ... ... 1 pint .. tin ... 244280
Special paint, Beige .. ... ... 1 gallon. tin ... 244283

Special paint, Grey ... ... ... 1 pint .. tin ... 244284
Special paint, Grey ... ... ... 1 gallon. tin ... 244287

All well and good quoting parts manuals compiled years later. The "80" that you have said had gate-latch door handles and bronze fittings has to be in the first 200 vehicles produced or be a vehicle repaired with parts scavenged from such a vehicle. In 1948/early 1949 the "standard" colour was a light green and spectrographic analysis has been able to identify its source. (Plenty on the Series 1 Forum about that). Be interesting to see what the first 1948 Parts Manual (dated 1948) has for paint colours.

The only way to determine an "original" paint colour on a vehicle is to remove one of the blanking plates somewhere (ideally a seatbox one) and look at the area never exposed to weathering or contact with other components.

I have original Australian printed 1948/49 brochures that show a Centre-Steer vehicle. It's obvious the artwork or blocks were sent from the UK for these to be produced. These brochures and even advertisements in newspapers are the obvious source of the folk-lore recollections of old-timers who swear they saw, drove, owned just such a vehicle. Press Release photos used here show a Pre-Production vehicle.

It may be that the white/grey colour is actually the etch that you saw as the paint had completely disappeared. Try getting it off the alloy - it's pretty tough stuff. You also see it black and yellow in the 80" vehicles.

In the photo Jon posted the visible parts of the firewall is denuded of paint and rusted/oxidised so the vehicle has been exposed to the elements for many years.

And when Colorbond Rivergum is good enough to be exported from here and used by restorers in the UK I imagine it must be very close to the correct colour for Pre-Productions and 1948/49 models.....................

Bob

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