Thread: Rolls-Royce B40 Powered 80" Land Rover

Originally Posted by Lost Landy

All 1949 80" landrovers had the 1.6 litre motor except the " B40 Rolls Royce" powered models.

The B40 powered Land Rover was an after-market hybrid, no different to a Holden powered Land Rover so should be considered in that light. Also I think that you will find that the B40 powered ones were all 1950.

There were some 2 litre prototypes built by Rover but not in 1949.

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

The B40 powered Land Rover was an after-market hybrid, no different to a Holden powered Land Rover so should be considered in that light. Also I think that you will find that the B40 powered ones were all 1950.

There were some 2 litre prototypes built by Rover but not in 1949.

The B40 engined Landrovers were modified by Hudson Motors as subcontractors for Rover, so a case could be made that they were different to Holden powered models - indeed, more akin to the Isuzu powered Stage 1s.

The contract was signed on December 20th 1949, and although there was a prototype built (by Rover) prior to this, it seems unlikely this was ever completed or delivered, so for practical purposes they were all built in 1950. In any case, since the 1950 model year started after the August 1949 works shutdown, they were all 1950 models anyway.

John

Originally Posted by JDNSW

The contract was signed on December 20th 1949, and although there was a prototype built (by Rover) prior to this, it seems unlikely this was ever completed or delivered,

John

Yes, the single Rover built B40 was completed.

R862561 Desp 'In' 11/02/49 and 'Out' 15/03/49, To Mr Goddard, Rover Co. Then redispatched 'Out' to FVDE Cobham, (Rolls Royce Engine)

Originally Posted by 260AC

Yes, the single Rover built B40 was completed.

R862561 Desp 'In' 11/02/49 and 'Out' 15/03/49, To Mr Goddard, Rover Co. Then redispatched 'Out' to FVDE Cobham, (Rolls Royce Engine)

Thanks for the clarification - my quick reading of the relevant section of John Smith's book left me with the impression that this was uncertain.

John

Originally Posted by JDNSW

The B40 engined Landrovers were modified by Hudson Motors as subcontractors for Rover, so a case could be made that they were different to Holden powered models - indeed, more akin to the Isuzu powered Stage 1s.

The contract was signed on December 20th 1949, and although there was a prototype built (by Rover) prior to this, it seems unlikely this was ever completed or delivered, so for practical purposes they were all built in 1950. In any case, since the 1950 model year started after the August 1949 works shutdown, they were all 1950 models anyway.

John

John

Just out of interest, the B40 engined Land Rovers may have been modified by Hudson Motors, who may have been subcontractors for Rover for things and contractors for the Ministry of Defense for other things. The vehicles converted had already been delivered to the MoD and it was because of a MoD requirement to test the Rolls Royce B40 engine's suitability for the Austin Champ project and not for any design requirements for the Land Rover. Why would it have been a Rover contracted development?

In Rover terms the production year commences in August of the year prior to the calendar year, (as yor said) so a contract signed in December 1949 is signed in the 1950 production year (as you said) and it is unlikely that any of the actual production of B40's happened in the 3 days before Christmas shutdown or in the 3 days that they may have worked in the week between Christmas and New Year - if the factory operated at all.

Therefore:

• The Land Rovers converted to Rolls Royce B40 power were all 1950 models - as I said.
• The Land Rovers had all been delivered to the MoD so the B40 conversion was after-market as I said.
• Which makes them hybrids and no different to the Holden conversion Land Rover tested alongside the B40 powered Land Rover by the Australian Dept of Supply, Army Design Establishment.

Not at all like the production Isuzu powered Land Rovers.

I have to apologise the 33 test vehicles were indeed 1949 models.

According to an article in the magazine "Classic Military Vehicle" April 2003 edition. "In May 1949, 33 new FV18001 Series 1s from contract 6/VEH/3569, were shipped to Hudson Motors' West London factory for the transplant." the article continues to conclude with the comment "However, it is worth dispelling the myth that says that these were "prototype Rolls Royce engined vehicles" which never made it into production. There is no documentary evidence that there was any intention to produce B40-engined Land Rovers in quantity - the vehicles were simply test beds for the engine." Similar statements about the Land Rover being merely a test platform for the Rolls Royce B40 engine (and Holden engine) are clearly documented in the Australian "Army Design Establishment" reports of the B40 (and Holden engine) tropical trials.

As I said hybrids.

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

I have to apologise the 33 test vehicles were indeed 1949 models.

According to an article in the magazine "Classic Military Vehicle" April 2003 edition. "In May 1949, 33 new FV18001 Series 1s from contract 6/VEH/3569, were shipped to Hudson Motors' West London factory for the transplant." the article continues to conclude with the comment "However, it is worth dispelling the myth that says that these were "prototype Rolls Royce engined vehicles" which never made it into production. There is no documentary evidence that there was any intention to produce B40-engined Land Rovers in quantity - the vehicles were simply test beds for the engine." Similar statements about the Land Rover being merely a test platform for the Rolls Royce B40 engine (and Holden engine) are clearly documented in the Australian "Army Design Establishment" reports of the B40 (and Holden engine) tropical trials.

As I said hybrids.

That is quite correct, but the fact remains that the installation was designed by Rover, who however, as you say never had any intention of series production of them. In fact, by that time they were so busy building standard Landrovers that they had to put the work out to Hudson Motors. Certainly the ultimate use of the vehicles was as test beds for the engine, and I have no doubt that Rover was hoping that they would not be asked to mass produce them. (They were not really a very suitable engine - too bulky, too heavy and too powerful.)

But the fact that the installation was designed by Rover makes the circumstances different to the Holden example - as far as I know there is no evidence that a Holden engine installation was ever designed by Rover, let alone producing forty of them.

John

Originally Posted by JDNSW

...But the fact that the installation was designed by Rover makes the circumstances different to the Holden example - as far as I know there is no evidence that a Holden engine installation was ever designed by Rover, let alone producing forty of them.

John

Do we have evidence that the conversion WAS designed by Rover?

The article I quoted from suggests that "The first vehicle was possibly converted by Rolls-Royce as a proving exercise, but work on the trials vehicles was undertaken by Hudson Motors Limited, the British subsidiary of the detroit-based firm of the same name."

Yes we know from Mike's record of the dispatch books that the first B40 powered vehicle was allocated to Mr Goddard (our new best friend) then dispatched out to FVDE, however did the B40 engine conversion occur at Rover or at FVDE? I would lean to FVDE as it would be Rolls-Royce engineers modifying their engine for the test platform (Land Rover) and they would have to have their Rolls-Royce resources on hand for the design modifications to produce the B40 No.1 Mk2b used in the Land Rover.

Mike - does the vehicle dispatch record list the engine number?

Alex - Can you ask Arthur?

I have to say this again, this use of Land Rover was for the development of a Rolls-Royce B40 engine as part of a series of parts-in-common engines for the Ministry of Defence by Rolls-Royce. The B40 was for use in the Austin Champ. The contracts for the design work would have been let by either the MoD or Rolls-Royce not by anyone else including Rover.

Diana