Master
Hang on!
That HAS to be a Holden spring diaphragm clutch so the thrust bearing is pushing directly on whatever number of springy fingers. I know from VW experience those fingers are prone to breakage so it's possible for the LR thrust bearing (because of its design) TO PUSH RIGHT THRU & remain there when a few fingers crack & weaken.
Is this a weakness peculiar to Holden conversions?
Are LR pressure plates diaphragm or coil springs?
RoverLord
Pressure plate has a serious problem. Possibly, it has had a Series 3 pressure plate installed - these do not work with a Series 1/2/2a.
The 2a originally had a 9" three finger plate (231888), but can be fitted with a 9.5" diaphragm clutch (GCC112).
The correct diaphragm plate for the 2a has a spacer attached to the release fingers to make up the extra space, distinguishing it from the Series 3 pressure plate (576557).
John
John
JDNSW
1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol
Master
Is the LR flywheel bolted on or is the Holden flywheel typically retained?
Master
This is what I saw when the GB was removed:
Attachment 25624
And at the other end:
IMG_1189.jpg
So! We have obviously a Holden flywheel with 3- fingered coil spring pressure plate.
I reckon the wrong PP was used here. The 3 pressure points (no bearing surface, no lubrication) have rapidly worn down the LR thrust bearing until it was so thin, it just bent backwards towards the GB & became entangled in the fingers & wouldn't go back. The hydraulics back filled & just left the thrust bearing in a fixed forward position resulting in a pedal that would not depress. The ensuing prang has shaken loose 2 of the anti rattle springs in the friction plate too.
THe correct clutch should have a rotatable surface to meet the thrust bearing. Any ideas which one?
Master
Sorry! Here is the 1st image
IMG_1188.jpg
RoverLord
No. The problem is that the clutch release bearing, which is inside the housing on the front of the gearbox, has seized, so that instead of the clutch release sleeve rotating with the fingers, it has remained stationary, resulting in rapid wear of the sleeve.
The clutch release bearing is lubricated by the gearbox oil, and failure of this bearing casts considerable doubt on the state of the other internals of the gearbox - failure is almost certainly due to either lack of oil or presence of water, although I suppose it is just possible that it is the result of either a driving habit or a clutch linkage problem that has resulted in the bearing being in contiuous use - but even this should not result in failure - all the other bearings in the gearbox are turning all the time.
The clutch release housing can be easily removed. At a minimum you will need a replacement release sleeve and bearing, and presumably seal as well, plus a new pressure plate and presumably driven plate. But I would at least take the top of the box and have a look at the works.
John
John
JDNSW
1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol
Master
(I'd better watch the terminology as I have always called what pushes on the clutch to release it the "thrust bearing".)
OK I can understand that happening BUT my damaged clutch release(withdrawal) sleeve spins quite freely.
Notwithstanding that, is it possible for the the clutch withdrawal sleeve thrust bearing to sieze momentarily, do the damage & then free up again once it cools off or gets lubrication?
I'm having trouble getting my head around the fact that the thrust force to release the clutch can be applied by a disc to 3 points about 6mm square each. It just seems unnatural without another disc on the pressure plate to distribute the load. I suppose the key to it is that the disc & the fingers are spinning at the same speed, yes?
RoverLord
You can call the it a thrust bearing or a clutch release bearing - both words apply. Any bearing that is designed to take axial loads is a thrust bearing, this particular one is a clutch release thrust bearing!Originally Posted by geodon
When you put your foot on the clutch, the sleeve is pushed forward until it touches the fingers. It is almost immediately accelerated to the same rotation speed as the pressure plate, giving a little wear on both surfaces - but this is not usually significant. The friction between the fingers and the sleeve is, in normal circumstances, much greater than that of the thrust bearing, so there is minimal movement between the surfaces, just while the sleeve is accelerated.
In this case, the drag on the bearing has exceeded the frictional force between the sleeve and the fingers. Although the sleeve appears to spin freely, don't forget that in operation the bearing has very considerable load on it, and it is quite possible for the bearing to spin freely but drag under load. It does not have to lock, just provide more drag than the fingers spinning on the sleeve face. But it could have momentarily locked - consider if, for example, a chip either from one of the balls or from elsewhere in the gearbox had jammed a ball, but fell out when the load was taken off.
It may be worth noting that when the later diaphragm sping pressure plate is fitted to a S2a, it has a steel ring fitted that the sleeve bears against, although this is not so much to spread the load as to provide a spacer.
John
John
JDNSW
1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol
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