Series 2 clutch issue

**1950landy** · 29th August 2020, 08:25 PM

I would not think the kink i the pipe would cause a problem unless completely blocked . The master cylinder only displaces what is in the piston chamber . Once the piston starts to move there is no flow from the pipe. John may be correct that the incorrect diameter M/ Cyl has been fitted or S/Cyl fitted. If the flexible hose is old it could swelling in side causing a restriction. Also the lug under the S/Cyl that the spring hooks into should be on the other side of the cyl lug . 1st the Cylinder is not sitting square on the mounting bracket & 2nd it is moving the cylinder away from the linkage . I know it is not much but you get a little bit here & a little wear there when it gets inside the bell housing it is multiplied.

Shane Scanlan · 30th August 2020, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Busted Syncro

G'day Shane,

Looking at the photo's of your clutch setup for the slave cylinder, you don't need the spring!. The spring is pushing the slave piston up into the cylinder and giving a clearance that needs to take up before the withdrawal sleeve contacts the clutch plate fingers. The hydraulic system is self adjusting and the clutch withdrawal sleeve sits softly on the cover plate levers.
Setup the adjustments as per the manual and then see how the clutch is operating and go from there to determine the next step to check if necessary.
(My 1966 2A has been my daily driver for 46 years and it doesn't have a spring on the slave cylinder.)
Hope this helps.
Chris

Hey Chris
You are the guru. I took the spring off. The lever slowly sank into position. The pedal was suddenly hard and works perfectly.
Who would have thought?
The spring is there in the workshop manual and has been on the truck for 60 years. So why is it now redundant?
Is it that the vehicle started life as non-hydrostatic and somewhere along the way hydrostatic components were added?
Anyway, happy days are here!
Many thanks.
Shane

**Busted Syncro** · 30th August 2020, 01:08 PM

G'day Shane,

Glad to help. Now that the withdrawal sleeve is lightly touching the cover plate fingers you need to check the clearance between the slave cylinder piston and the circlip with the fully depressed pedal. This is important to check!
Make up a test gauge that is 3mm thick i.e. hammer out a piece of filler wire or cut metal shim that can fit between piston and circlip to measure the 3mm.
Method B in the manual describes how to adjust the push rod length to get the 3mm clearance after all the other pedal/master cylinder adjustments have been made.
(This system is self adjusting for wear on the driven plate.)

Happy driving!!
Chris

Shane Scanlan · 31st August 2020, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Busted Syncro

G'day Shane,

Glad to help. Now that the withdrawal sleeve is lightly touching the cover plate fingers you need to check the clearance between the slave cylinder piston and the circlip with the fully depressed pedal. This is important to check!
Make up a test gauge that is 3mm thick i.e. hammer out a piece of filler wire or cut metal shim that can fit between piston and circlip to measure the 3mm.
Method B in the manual describes how to adjust the push rod length to get the 3mm clearance after all the other pedal/master cylinder adjustments have been made.
(This system is self adjusting for wear on the driven plate.)

Happy driving!!
Chris

Hi Chris,
I'm not following you on this. Do you mean under the rubber boot at the end of the slave? If so, how would you even check this? Maybe there is another circlip you are referring to?
Shane

**gromit** · 31st August 2020, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by Shane Scanlan

The spring is there in the workshop manual and has been on the truck for 60 years. So why is it now redundant?

By removing the spring the piston in the slave isn't fully retracted so it takes up lost motion somewhere from the lever onwards.
The suggestion of a longer pushrod would have done the same thing or you could look further into why/where the motion is lost.

By removing the spring could the thrust bearing be left continually revolving ?? You're now relying on the clutch springs to push the piston back.

Colin

**JDNSW** · 31st August 2020, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Shane Scanlan

...
Is it that the vehicle started life as non-hydrostatic and somewhere along the way hydrostatic components were added?
....

I think that is exactly what has happened. And, check that your workshop manual does cover both types of mechanism.

I should have spotted the spring - but didn't!

**Busted Syncro** · 31st August 2020, 02:16 PM

G'day Shane,
Good question!. How do you measure that 3mm (1/8") up in there?.
Yes, the clearance you need to adjust is under the rubber boot at the bottom of the slave cylinder. Why this adjustment is necessary is to provide clearance between the slave piston skirt and circlip so that the pedal will go to the floor and not stop off the floor when the piston skirt hits the circlip and also the clutch plate is fully disengaged as well. (All the adjustments in the clutch system will give correct clearances and operation.)
I have taken photo's of my tools I made over the years. The rod one is made out of 1/8" stainless I had and is the one I use now. The shim one I made years ago in a hurry to get the job done!.
Just fully depress the clutch pedal and see where the piston skirt is in relation to the circlip. Then adjust the push rod length to give the 3mm (1/8") clearance using the tool to get the 3mm (1/8") clearance.
Note: The clutch hydraulics are the fastest wearing hydraulic components in the vehicle because of the gear changes and piston travel in city driving. The slave cylinder will leak first.
Hope this helps.
Chris

**bemm52** · 31st August 2020, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by gromit

By removing the spring could the thrust bearing be left continually revolving ?? You're now relying on the clutch springs to push the piston back.

Colin

This was my thought when I was setting up my clutch recently, so I left the spring in also there were holes in the actuator arm and the slave cylinder bracket to fit a spring.
With the slave piston pulled back by the spring I made sure I adjusted the rod to give about 3 mm of play between the top hat throw out bearing and the clutch fingers. This was measured through the inspection hole above the gear leaver bracket
both my 2a’s have springs but I do notice clutch pedal is heavier than in my series 3

Cheers Paul

Shane Scanlan · 31st August 2020, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Busted Syncro

G'day Shane,
Good question!. How do you measure that 3mm (1/8") up in there?.
Yes, the clearance you need to adjust is under the rubber boot at the bottom of the slave cylinder. Why this adjustment is necessary is to provide clearance between the slave piston skirt and circlip so that the pedal will go to the floor and not stop off the floor when the piston skirt hits the circlip and also the clutch plate is fully disengaged as well. (All the adjustments in the clutch system will give correct clearances and operation.)
I have taken photo's of my tools I made over the years. The rod one is made out of 1/8" stainless I had and is the one I use now. The shim one I made years ago in a hurry to get the job done!.
Just fully depress the clutch pedal and see where the piston skirt is in relation to the circlip. Then adjust the push rod length to give the 3mm (1/8") clearance using the tool to get the 3mm (1/8") clearance.
Note: The clutch hydraulics are the fastest wearing hydraulic components in the vehicle because of the gear changes and piston travel in city driving. The slave cylinder will leak first.
Hope this helps.
Chris

Thanks again. I now know where I should be poking my home-made thingamajig!
But the actual adjustment? Where does that happen? Are you saying that if I get everything else perfect (pedal height, free play, etc) then the 3mm gap will magically appear?
Or does the push rod has to be adjusted (despite being under full pressure at the time)?

**gromit** · 31st August 2020, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by bemm52

This was my thought when I was setting up my clutch recently, so I left the spring in also there were holes in the actuator arm and the slave cylinder bracket to fit a spring. With the slave piston pulled back by the spring I made sure I adjusted the rod to give about 3 mm of play between the top hat throw out bearing and the clutch fingers. This was measured through the inspection hole above the gear leaver bracket both my 2a’s have springs but I do notice clutch pedal is heavier than in my series 3 Cheers Paul

Hi Paul, the spring is there so that the slave cylinder is fully retracted otherwise you 'lose' part of it's stroke. What you've done is the way I would do the job to retain the full available stroke.

Originally Posted by Busted Syncro

Good question!. How do you measure that 3mm (1/8") up in there?.

Chris, fit the spring and adjust the pushrod and you won't have to do this because you have the full stroke of the slave cylinder available so it won't hit the circlip. With the spring in place if you can't adjust the pushrod to get a small clearance at the clutch then there is something worn or NQR somewhere. Removing the spring is a 'fix' but with other complications. Colin

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