Thread: Skill required for use of non-synchro gearbox off road?

Originally Posted by sjd70

I have been looking for a good SWB for a while. I like the series 2/2a but am a little inexperienced with non-synchro gearboxes.

I enjoy Fraser Island (in my Disco Tdi auto!) and other off road destinations and understand the theory of double de-clutching etc but I can see how difficult trying to do this quickly in a off road situation would/could be.

Is the answer just the correct gear selection in the first place and keep on going...? YES

Is it just practise and it becomes really easy? YES

Do you just crash the gears at the odd time where a gear change is required fast?

Do I just accept that a series three is better?? (or weaker??)

How easy is a non-synchro box off road compared to a series three? could be described as a challange

Any input appreciated.

Sean

You will learn to love a non-syncro box.

Paul

Originally Posted by sjd70

Is the answer just the correct gear selection in the first place and keep on going...?
There are a lot of situations where that is good practice with any gearbox.

Is it just practise and it becomes really easy?
When I was a lot younger and my reflexes, hearing and eyesight were a lot better , I drove a Series II offroad a bit and found the gearbox pretty easy to use.

Do you just crash the gears at the odd time where a gear change is required fast?
That didn't seem to happen very often. For example if I was running out of puff in second low and needed first low, if I had left it a bit late to change down, I found that in the time it took me to press and release the appropriate pedals and move the applicable lever, everything had just about stopped moving or rotating so that all that seemed to be needed was to disengage the clutch and push into first without even double de-clutching. It usually just slipped in with no noise at all. Of course if I was better prepared, double de-clutching worked as it should.

Do I just accept that a series three is better?? (or weaker??)
No - just different.

How easy is a non-synchro box off road compared to a series three?
A lot of people from farmers and construction workers to adventurers drove Series I and II Land Rover in some pretty extreme conditions, so it must be pretty easy.

Any input appreciated.

Sean

I imagine people like the Snowy construction workers needed some pretty quick changes in the conditions in which they worked. As far as I know they coped.

I can't really say, as I learnt to drive in vehicles with no synchromesh, but both my sons, having learnt in cars with synchromesh adapted fairly rapidly and easily to the 2a. Second is really very easy - changing up, all it needs is a brief pause in neutral, changing down double declutching is necessary, but does not have to be particularly accurate, and a bit of a clash won't hurt anyway.

First is more difficult as it is not constant mesh, but you can usually avoid changing down to it on the move. If you are likely to need to do so, you probably should be in low range anyway (in which case you are using 2/3/4). If you are in low range and need to change into first, you will be going so slowly that you are almost certain to stop anyway, so you might as well stop to avoid the problem.

John

once you're ofay with the way the gear box works a good operator can shift a non syncro box quicker than a normal driver can shift a full syncro box.

I have no problems operating on or off road without syncro its just a learning curve, If you really, really want to learn a crunch box grab an old series, hook up a tons worth of trailer then go driving in melbourne for a couple of days.

In answer to you're questions.

yep picking the right gear before you go is always best regardless of the type of transmission.

yep it gets easier

yep everyone crunches gears.

its not really harder its just different..

the non syncro box is stronger the series III is a little easier if you've never driven crash box or you're not confident about it.

When I learnt to double de-clutch in the Army, I was shown that the faster the action on the clutch pedal the better it worked.

Two quick bangs on the floor and the next gear will engage easily

Once you have mastered this skill (we had to in in 2 or 3 days or be off the course) try changing gears on the move without a clutch at all. The technique is the gentlest of finger pressure on the gearstick, whilst throttling off, the gear will disengage when it wants to and gentle pressure will push it into the next speed. Down-shifting is the same, with a bit of throttle in neutral to synchronise the dog clutch speeds. If this is done well there is no crunching and the passenger won't even notice that you are not using a clutch

Cheers Charlie

think about what you are asking the gear box to do.

as you are disengaging and engaging 1 gear thats connected to the drive shaft and another thats connected to the motor ver the clutch.

changing up you are asking the gear connected to the motor to spin slower to match the speed of the gear connected to the drive shaft a paus will help with this as the motor will lose its revs rater quickly.

shifting down is a bit different because you are asking for the motor driven gear to speed up. i tend to leave a bit of throttle on to try and match the motor revs for the new lower gear i am selecting. a bit of practice and if you get the reves correct it will just slip in quite quickly, no dubbing of the clutch.

i still double on upshifts, habit and it makes a mandatory pause, helps with the timing.

Originally Posted by chazza

... try changing gears on the move without a clutch at all. ...
Cheers Charlie

That brings back memories. About 1970 I was delivering a load of beans to Spitalfields Market in London, and the clutch master cylinder failed on the way out of the markets. I drove back down to Kent, through London, across Tower Bridge, down the Old Kent Road, with no clutch. Just as well it was the middle of the night.

Peter

I have been driving my IIA offroad for 14 years. The lack of synchromesh has never caused an issue. The 2 - 1 change is the only tricky one, but you rarely need to do that offroad.

I once drove from northern NSW to Brisbane with no clutch - now that was a bit difficult...

What causes more difficulty is not being able to change easily from L-H at speed.