Thread: Front hub help...please.

Originally Posted by RaggedJoe

Thanks for the advice. I might do just that.

Although I do notice a difference with the hubs disengaged on the road, any little increases in effeiciency are wellcome in the thirsty old beast.

Is ther any other good reason for persisting with the free wheeling ones?

I have run free wheeling hubs for quite some time (both with and without on and off since 1962), and have made tests with them locked and unlocked. On the open road the free wheel hubs give slightly better acceleration, as you have less rotating mass, but I have never been able to detect any difference in fuel consumption - doesn't mean there is not an effect, just that other variables (road, speed, wind, etc) make a bigger difference. There will be slightly less vibration, depending on how well balanced your front prop shaft is. In my view, the only good reason for the free wheel hubs is to allow you to continue with a dubious front prop shaft, as you can arrange to have the hubs only engaged at low speed.

John

Thanks John. Great to have your perspective.

I think the front prop shaft is dubious, but no more than the rest of a 35 year old vehicle that has spent most of it's life in the mud and never been near a mechanic unless it was really broken.

I have a real sentimental attachment, since my father in law bought it brand new, my wife learnt to drive in it and now both our kids have. We have less farm than we used to, just a hobby now, but we'll never sell the Landie.

So I need to keep it running, might go back to standard front hubs, it will be more original anyway. And save me getting out when I do leave it them unlocked and go off road!

I don't have the time nor apptitude to do a re build at the moment, but will potter away on jobs as they need doing.

Thanks for your help now and in advance of my next issue

all the previous advice looks fine to me although i consider the work they've suggested you do is a little over the top in my opinion

i'd personally not touch the bearings and just keep them in the hub unless i'd heard rumbling noises, as unless they're badly worn you're unlikely to see anything if you've no experience of worn bearings (you could feel for notchiness with the wheel and brake drum off i suppose with the drive to that hub switched off/flange removed)...

the seal easily levers out of the hub, note that it isn't driven all the way into the machined recess, if you drive the new one right in rather than just flush with the face you'll want to go and buy another seal as it'll want replacing due to the immediate leak (yes i did make that mistake the first time )

the "land" which is the bit the seal inner face runs on often shows rust on it closest to the brake backplate and just where the seal runs it shows a polished line around it's circumference which slowly wears into a very shallow groove, as said it's possible this is part of the stub axle rather than removable, so you need to check this carefully (i don't know when landrover changed to the one piece stub and land, all mine are two piece)

the other benefit of getting rid of the freewheel hubs is if/when you break a rear halfshaft you don't have to worry about getting your landrover out of the way of other traffic, just hit the 4x4 lever and drive on the front axle, also you can still then use the handbrake, there'd be nothing worse than being on a hill with a broken halfshaft and your FWH's set to 2x4 (no propulsion and you sat there yelling for someone to come and help out while you keep your foot on the brakes )

i've successfully reused O-rings unless they've softened/stretched too big to sit back in the recess, i've used a fine smear of silicone on them/the seat area

the paper gasket can be replaced with a fine bead of silicone (use sparingly or it will end up in the threads which is annoying)

obviously if the wheel bearings on both sides of the front axle appear to have play (rock the wheel in and out by holding the top and bottom of the wheel) then you'll need a second person to help you check them as the play may be in the top/bottom swivel bearings rather than the wheel bearings, to eliminate this get your assistant to apply the brakes firmly while you rock the wheel again, if it still rocks then you'll need to make adjustments/replace other parts than the wheel bearings

and finally, as i've said before elsewhere i only fix things that are broken so if only one seal is leaking i'd only replace that one and not strip the second hub off until it needs it, replacing both pairs of front shoes is probably worthwhile on the basis that they wear pretty evenly usually, so one half days work sorting out the front end is better than coming back to it a month later with the jack and tools just to sort the other brake shoes out, don't forget to take your time adjusting the brake shoes

take lots of photos as you take things apart, especially of the brake shoe springs so that you can refer back to them as you reassemble

final thing to do is check the swivels are topped back up if you've removed the drive flanges/hubs

p.s.
while it is up on jacks and the wheels are off the front, grease all your track rod ends including the ones from the steering box (easiest with the wheels off usually)

Thanks for informative reply. Will probably lose the FW hubs as I don't see any real benefit with the small mileage we do in her.

It is all a bit daunting for a non mechanic, but I'll take your advice with the photos and taking my time.

The bearings just came out of the hubs easily so they have been washed and wrapped up for reinstalation when I have the new seals etc.

There is rust excatly where you predict, I can't really feel a groove. "land" seems to be part of the hub. So I guess I am going to replace the seals and hope for the best.

From memory the manual says to instal the seal on the stub before the hub? But you sugest putting the seal in the hub then installing the hub? Noted not to drive it too far!

Originally Posted by RaggedJoe

........

From memory the manual says to instal the seal on the stub before the hub? But you sugest putting the seal in the hub then installing the hub? Noted not to drive it too far!

No, the seal is installed in the hub. A smear of grease on the lip of the seal will help stop it from being damaged during installation. According to the book, it should be flush with the hub, not recessed at all.

John

Originally Posted by RaggedJoe

Thanks for informative reply. Will probably lose the FW hubs as I don't see any real benefit with the small mileage we do in her.

It is all a bit daunting for a non mechanic, but I'll take your advice with the photos and taking my time.

The bearings just came out of the hubs easily so they have been washed and wrapped up for reinstalation when I have the new seals etc.

There is rust excatly where you predict, I can't really feel a groove. "land" seems to be part of the hub. So I guess I am going to replace the seals and hope for the best.

From memory the manual says to instal the seal on the stub before the hub? But you sugest putting the seal in the hub then installing the hub? Noted not to drive it too far!

glad to have been of help ..

i'd polish that rust off the land as when fitting the new seal it may just catch and wear on it (this is due to you/me not being able to replace it exactly where the original was) , you can use wet and dry paper carefully, i'd use no coarser grit than 400 (preferably 500-600)and be careful to polish "round" the land not "across", use a little fine oil on the paper when polishing

the seal is definitely fitted in the hub and "flush with the hub" as R.Joe says but don't forget to put the inner bearing in before fitting the seal or that will be another reason for buying/using a second new seal

hope that helps

a little thought, i don't know how easy it is for you to get your parts or how essential your landrover is, mine is my daily driver so when i need to buy inexpensive parts like seals, brake shoes or spring bushes i generally buy a couple of spares to keep on my shelf, this way i'm not off the road for more than a couple of hours usually

If you do decide to keep the AVM hubs then you can buy a kit with all the seals and gaskets from ARB. Here in Brisbane they had to order it in but it only took a couple of days. Does both hubs too.

Timj.

Thanks guys. Have decided to replace the AVM hubs with original drive flanges, but AVM's will go on the shelf in case I want to change back one day.

One more basic question sorry. JDNSW has explained that "Bearings on Series 3 are oil lubricated from the swivel, but are greased on assembly for initial lubrication"

The Manual says half fill the hub with grease on re-assmbly. As the hubs will oil fill from the swivels (which I will top up as last job) how much grease do I put in the hubs? Just enough to settle bearings for initial lubrication? Or plenty?