T-Bar Auto in Series 3

**Lionelgee** · 2nd December 2015, 09:14 AM

Hello All,

I was looking on the Interweb and came across a T-Bar Automatic gearbox fitted to a Series III.

The information did not mention whether it means that vehicle is only 2 wheel drive? Or can T-Bar autos be fitted up to the transfer box so four wheel drive is still available?

How good are T-Bar Autos in a Series vehicle? Did it require a lot of modification to chassis and cross members fit the T-Bar?

I automatically associate T-Bar autos with Ford Falcon cars from the 1970s or did other manufacturers fit them to Australian cars? Or were "T" bar autos any car that had a gear selector that had a "T" shape handle instead of the selector being mounted on the steering column like the old EH Holden Manual's "Three on the Tree"?

My apologies for the barrage of questions.

Kind Regards
Lionel

**JDNSW** · 2nd December 2015, 09:27 AM

I don't know if this is what you saw, but the Australian army converted a couple of Series 3s to two wheel drive automatics for parade ground use. The fact that they were two wheel drive suggests that this may have too many issues to be easily solved. A drawback of the conversion is that there is no handbrake, making registration anywhere rather problematic.

John

**Lionelgee** · 2nd December 2015, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by JDNSW

I don't know if this is what you saw, but the Australian army converted a couple of Series 3s to two wheel drive automatics for parade ground use. The fact that they were two wheel drive suggests that this may have too many issues to be easily solved. A drawback of the conversion is that there is no handbrake, making registration anywhere rather problematic.

John

Hello John,

The example I found was an American engine fitted with the T Bar auto into a Series III.

If they are only two wheel drive it annuls my main reason for buying a four wheel drive. Namely having something which is capable of being driven off road.

Kind Regards
Lionel

**Alistair** · 2nd December 2015, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Lionelgee

Hello John,

If they are only two wheel drive it annuls my main reason for buying a four wheel drive. Namely having something which is capable of being driven off road.

Lionel

Try telling that to Land Rover.

They have just scrapped Defender and are now producing a whole load of 2WD electronic computer controlled cr@p with no low range.

Which may be great for sales to the high end urbanite market in ''developing markets' but is also bugger all use to the rest of us. You may as well stick a green oval on the front of a beefed up Pirus.

Basically if you now want a coil sprung, live axled rugged vehicle with a decent low range, relatively simple engineering and limited electronics, a built in rear locker and a good selection of aftermarket accessories, you are now looking at a Jeep Wrangler.

Much as it pains me to say it.

**Homestar** · 10th December 2015, 07:07 AM

With some modifications, a ZF HP22 Transmission with LT230 TC can be fitted so you end up with constant 4WD. It would probably be easier to fit the entire drivetrain - and use a V8 in front of it too. Big job, but can (and has) been done. The T-bar shifter from these setups is cable operated and is almost a surface mount unit, so the shifter can be put anywhere it needs to go.

**Lotz-A-Landies** · 10th December 2015, 02:40 PM

Roy Sim (RIP) and Leon Braxton were fitting Ford C4 automatics to Series transfer boxes in 1976. Usually behind Ford 302 V8s.

Yes they were still selectable 2WD/4WD with the yellow button.

BTW: The Rover Co. Ltd. were producing 2WD Series 1 and Series 2 Land Rovers back in the 1950s and 1960's. Some of them were the "Rover Service School" long wheelbases, but many went to the MoD for general duties CL vehicles where 4WD was not required.

**JDNSW** · 10th December 2015, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

......
BTW: The Rover Co. Ltd. were producing 2WD Series 1 and Series 2 Land Rovers back in the 1950s and 1960's. Some of them were the "Rover Service School" long wheelbases, but many went to the MoD for general duties CL vehicles where 4WD was not required.

A fascinating feature of these is a short stub driving axle with a thrower to ensure lubrication of the upper swivel bearing. That Rover considered this necessary should give pause to those fitting free wheel hubs to their Series Landrovers.

I believe most of the 2WD Landrovers were converted eventually to standard configuration. The numbers produced were small and only for bulk orders - they were never offered to the general public.

John

**pop058** · 10th December 2015, 04:47 PM

The handbrake issue on the Army autos ( trimatic behind a Holden six) was solved with a small disc brake fitted at the front uni joint location IIRC.

**LandyAndy** · 11th December 2015, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

Roy Sim (RIP) and Leon Braxton were fitting Ford C4 automatics to Series transfer boxes in 1976. Usually behind Ford 302 V8s.

Yes they were still selectable 2WD/4WD with the yellow button.

BTW: The Rover Co. Ltd. were producing 2WD Series 1 and Series 2 Land Rovers back in the 1950s and 1960's. Some of them were the "Rover Service School" long wheelbases, but many went to the MoD for general duties CL vehicles where 4WD was not required.

I have a Series 3 that I fitted a 302 Cleveland and C4 auto down the back.I did drive it around for a whilst went like a dog shot up the arse

Runs a Seatons Engineers WA modified gearbox output housing,its much shorter than a normal auto output housing and bolts direct to the Series transfercase.
It is an unfinished project.My Bro also runs the same conversion in a 2a wagon with a tough XE 6cyl up front.Goes really well.
For the T Bar auto shift you need a Cortina 6cyl T bar shift or a BM style shifter.These a cable shift,like a morse cable on a boats outboard.The falcon style is a problem as they are solid linkages and there is too much bodyflex that causes unwanted gear shift prompts

Andrew

**plus 30** · 17th August 2020, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by LandyAndy

I have a Series 3 that I fitted a 302 Cleveland and C4 auto down the back.I did drive it around for a whilst went like a dog shot up the arse

Runs a Seatons Engineers WA modified gearbox output housing,its much shorter than a normal auto output housing and bolts direct to the Series transfercase.
It is an unfinished project.My Bro also runs the same conversion in a 2a wagon with a tough XE 6cyl up front.Goes really well.
For the T Bar auto shift you need a Cortina 6cyl T bar shift or a BM style shifter. These a cable shift,like a morse cable on a boats outboard.The falcon style is a problem as they are solid linkages and there is too much bodyflex that causes unwanted gear shift prompts

Andrew

I saw a Series three many years ago in Boyanup, it had a Ford engine and C4 Auto, this would have been a Seaton's set up, as it was in WA, I have been to Seaton's workshop at the North of Perth and checked this out.

They get the standard main shaft, soften it and machine another spline a bit shorter, then had to re harden it and straighten it, this is a compromise as far as I am concerned, as there is a limit to how far it can be shortened because of the original speedo drive thread.
I think the auxiliary equipment also no longer fits due to changes to the transfer drive gear.
They used to make other Land rover series 3 manual gearbox conversions too, haven't done any for a while as I recall.

I am very much aware of the auto length being longer than the original manual box from the Ark, I don't want to do it the Seaton's way, so I have purchased a Ford Bronco conversion main shaft from the states this is a much better length, I was going to make up a short extension shaft to adapt to the transfer case, but the U.S. spline fits are bad for some reason.
I am going to look into getting a whole purpose built shaft made with no join issues and correct splines ( C4 and Land rover ) and original Land rover transfer gears.

I am very conscious of keeping it all short as I can otherwise it will make the rear trail-shaft too steep an angle.
Land Rover considered this tail shaft angle issue when they made the short wheel base models.

I am also aware that some engine conversions lift the front of the engine ( especially in the 4cyl engine bay ) and this messes up the front tail-shaft angle and causes rapid wear in adverse conditions. The best set up would be in a factory 6cyl long wheel base model, with enough space to maintain a better shaft angle, the gearbox will still need to be further back though.

I want to do things a bit different, as I am a Holden fan, and want to keep with the Holden red motor, to achieve this I have welded and machined out a Late Trimatic full circle bell housing to suit the front of the C4 ( which has the separate bell housing ).
I have then got hold of a smaller 4 cyl Mustang converter from the states to fit inside the Holden bell housing.
On the engine side I had the end of the crank bored out to accept the bigger converter pilot and have had a purpose drilled flex plate to suit, from an Australian company.

I have asked the bell housing conversion specialists if they could make a Holden red/ blue to C4 conversion Bell housing, but there obviously was not enough demand.
I have noticed that since my enquiry they now do a conversion from C4 to a V6 Commodore engine, This could be another option for me, but I don't know what this would entail. ( as it happens I have a spare engine on hand ) I thought it would be a tight fit?

The original Ford Torque converter might actually fit into a larger V6 Commodore bell housing and save the purchase of an expensive 4 cyl Mustang one from the U.S.

Mike

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