Thread: Series III 109 Ute to 3 Door Wagon Conversion

Originally Posted by buckbeaumont

Hey guys,

I'm looking to buy a S3 109 Wagon and hoping to set it up as an overlander type vehicle. This will be my first venture into owning a Land Rover so not really familiar with the brand and what's possible.

I'm fairly set on either a 2.25 petrol or diesel at this point and don't want one with the Holden powerplant in it.

After a fair bit of research, I've found a fair few well priced Series III 109 2.25P 2 Door Utes but haven't found many that are in the 3dr Wagon configuration.

My questions are:

- How easy would it be to fit a wagon tub (canopt) to the Ute?

Assuming that by ute you mean one with a tub rather than a flat tray, if you have done it before, as little as an afternoon, if your first time, you might run to more than a day. Good idea is to get a parts book to check you have all the bits and pieces before starting (see "Shop" above for books on DVD). A second person to help with lifting is needed. If it is a flat tray, it becomes a lot more complicated, but still quite doable. Both jobs are like a meccano set, with no or virtually no cutting or fabricating.

- Are the wagon rear bodies off a S2/S2A compatible with an S3?

Yes. A few minor differences, but no significant ones. 110/Defender roof shape to windscreen is different and the tub has different wheel positions.

I apologise for my ignorance in advance

Any advise would be much appreciated!

The term "station wagon" is not generally used for the three door 109, and for the 88 is only used where it is fitted with rear seats, alpine windows and station wagon trim. The three door 109 is usually referred to as a "hardtop" or "van".

Assuming you start from a ute with a tub rather than a flat tray, you need to:-

1. remove cab roof and back, less than a dozen bolts and nuts (but some may be seized).

2. Source a hardtop and sides complete.

3. Install on tub and windscreen. About the same number of bolts and nuts as the cab.

4. If the hardtop came with a lifting hatch, all good. If it came with a door, remove the ute tailgate and fit door hinges and striker assembly. It is quite feasible to fit a door to replace a tailgate and hatch, and doors are compatible (with changes to lock, checkstrap, and hinges) from Series 2 to 2016 Defender. Depends on how you are using it which setup is preferred.

Probable issues.

1. Top seatbelt shoulder mount. This can be an issue. Seatbelts were not factory fitted to early Series 2a, and without the factory mount you can expect to need engineering approval.

2. Before starting, check with your registration authority what will be involved with changing body style (unlikely to be an issue if the vehicle is not registered, as the chassis number is probably not associated with a body style in their data base).

3. Expect to need to replace rubber seals between windscreen and roof and hardtop and tub. And you may decide you need to do some restoration while you are at it. This will involve a lot more work and money!

If starting from a flat tray, there is a lot more work. You need to source the tub as well and remove all the body behind the doors (you will reuse the seat box). This involves a lot more bolts and nuts, and I can guarantee a lot of them are seized! Worse, since the tub is fixed relative to the chassis, the bulhead or firewall may need its position adjusting so the doors fit. This involves another lot more bolts and nuts, (mudguards have to be removed) and again, some are guaranteed to be seized. Of course, if the bulkhead is being removed anyway for repair/restoration/painting, less of an issue.

I would have thought it easier to find a 109 troopie style hardtop than a ute. Utes are becoming quite rare.

But why a Series 3 and not a Defender - the series 3 is getting a bit long in the tooth for overlanding type work and a Defender or even older 110 would be more comfortable and usuable.

Originally Posted by JDNSW

The term "station wagon" is not generally used for the three door 109, and for the 88 is only used where it is fitted with rear seats, alpine windows and station wagon trim. The three door 109 is usually referred to as a "hardtop" or "van".

Assuming you start from a ute with a tub rather than a flat tray, you need to:-

1. remove cab roof and back, less than a dozen bolts and nuts (but some may be seized).

2. Source a hardtop and sides complete.

3. Install on tub and windscreen. About the same number of bolts and nuts as the cab.

4. If the hardtop came with a lifting hatch, all good. If it came with a door, remove the ute tailgate and fit door hinges and striker assembly. It is quite feasible to fit a door to replace a tailgate and hatch, and doors are compatible (with changes to lock, checkstrap, and hinges) from Series 2 to 2016 Defender. Depends on how you are using it which setup is preferred.

Probable issues.

1. Top seatbelt shoulder mount. This can be an issue. Seatbelts were not factory fitted to early Series 2a, and without the factory mount you can expect to need engineering approval.

2. Before starting, check with your registration authority what will be involved with changing body style (unlikely to be an issue if the vehicle is not registered, as the chassis number is probably not associated with a body style in their data base).

3. Expect to need to replace rubber seals between windscreen and roof and hardtop and tub. And you may decide you need to do some restoration while you are at it. This will involve a lot more work and money!

If starting from a flat tray, there is a lot more work. You need to source the tub as well and remove all the body behind the doors (you will reuse the seat box). This involves a lot more bolts and nuts, and I can guarantee a lot of them are seized! Worse, since the tub is fixed relative to the chassis, the bulhead or firewall may need its position adjusting so the doors fit. This involves another lot more bolts and nuts, (mudguards have to be removed) and again, some are guaranteed to be seized. Of course, if the bulkhead is being removed anyway for repair/restoration/painting, less of an issue.

Appreciate all the help John, very helpful!

I have seen a fair few "vans" selling but most have Holden engines in them. I'm not to sure what went into the conversion from 4cyl to the Holden and don't want to inherit someones botch job when I go to restore it back to original. What are your thoughts on this?


Are you aware of people moving the outriggers on the chassis when putting a tray on? Or do you think it's a fairly safe bet to buy a trayback and bolt the rear van assembly on (tub+roof+sides)?

I've seen that a lot of traybacks have the tabs cut off the rear crossmember which doesn't seem like to big of a job but then again, I'm not familiar with these cars!

Originally Posted by buckbeaumont

Are you aware of people moving the outriggers on the chassis when putting a tray on?

If you can weld it's no problem. New outriggers are available as well, I believe. Be aware though that this "may" require engineering. It does in Vic, and they don't like the welds to be straight vertical. But once again, John (JDNSW) is likely correct re the database.
Good luck.

I have never converted from tray to tub, but all the flat tray installations I have seen have not involved any chassis modifications. But any changes, such as the tabs you menion, are small, easy, welding jobs. The entire chassis is thin mild steel and simple to weld, with repair sections generally available.

As far as Holden conversions go, these vary from back yard butchery to professional, and from no body or chassis modifications to significant changes. The really major issue is that some of the adapters between the engine and the bell housing were no made accurately enough, and the resultant misalignment has resulted in significant gearbox issues. If the vehicle is not registered (and sometimes if it is) the conversion can result in significant engineering issues and costs. The gearing is not really suited to the Holden engines, and many conversions are fitted with a Fairey overdrive, which is a little fragile and expensive to repair. There are a few other ones about, but while stronger, these are problematic for parts. An alternative is a high ratio transfer case.

The other issue with Holden conversions is that unless it is fully documented (very rare) you have to do a lot of detective work when looking for parts - including such things as clutches, radiator hoses engine mounts etc.

You've just confirmed what I was thinking! I'll definitely stick to my plan of finding an original Series 3 2.25 Petrol/Diesel trayback and converting it to a Van.

Really appreciate all the advise and years of wisdom!

I'll let you know how I end up.

Cheers