Thread: Series 3 6Cyl wont start - Pls Help

Originally Posted by RANDLOVER

I don't know, that's why I'm asking, something for the OP to watch out for, as older cars can have all sorts of mods done over the years.

Actually reading the Op it says "positive wire run to coil as the ignition lock is buggered and will need a new one eventually. The motor turns freely upon jump starting. No signs of it being starting or wants to start . Removed old carby and replaced it with spare carby, replaced dizzy, coil from a spare car that was running when i tried with direct fuel. So i knew that set was good enough to at least fire the engine. Replaced all, replaced with brand new plugs , cleaned all contacts on ignition leads , dizzy cap and rotor.
Removed Cyl 1 spark plug and hand cranked to see if i can adjust the timing and firing order. When the inserted screw driver was on top of Cyl i marked the dizzy rotor position and started as Lead 1 and arranged all anticlockwise in firing order and installed. Gave the spare carby a good clean with soft brush and petrol and installed. So i got Positive to Coil direct from battery, starter solenoid and negative connected to battery" so can disregard my BR advice.

Was their a Spark when turned over?

The problem sounds like a timing issue, or something in the ignition circuit.

From memory there is a timing mark on the front pulley.
I use a thin piece of plastic bag (in the old days it was a cigarette paper) between the points. Pull gently on the plastic while turning the motor with the crank handle, the points should open when the timing marks line up. Move the distributor until the points open at the correct point.
Pop the rotor arm back on and work out from the distributor cap which cylinder the rotor arm is pointing to, it should be number 1.
Then check the firing order to make sure leads haven't been swapped around.

I had problems with a coil breaking down (no ballast resistor as standard) and plug leads breaking down.

I did track down some ignition parts that could be sourced from SuperCheap etc.. I posted this on the forum but will have to see if I can track it down.
Here it is mil spec dizzy components


Best of luck.


Colin

Originally Posted by Tins

Does the 6cyl LR have a BR? I'm not sure.

No ballast on the six, but it does occur to me that there could be an issue if the starter solenoid has been replaced by one designed for a ballast (i.e. with separate connector for ignition to cut out ballast when the starter is operated. In this case, if the wire to ignition is connected to the wrong place could cause the ignition to be lost when the starter is operated (I may not be thinking this correctly0.

But I am suspecting timing.

Originally Posted by JDNSW

No ballast on the six, but it does occur to me that there could be an issue if the starter solenoid has been replaced by one designed for a ballast (i.e. with separate connector for ignition to cut out ballast when the starter is operated. In this case, if the wire to ignition is connected to the wrong place could cause the ignition to be lost when the starter is operated (I may not be thinking this correctly0.

But I am suspecting timing.

As stated by JDNSW there is no ballast resistor as standard so it could have the later starter switch which has one wire to the starter solenoid for initial cranking and then swap to resistor terminal after startup. However it was stated he has hot wired it direct to battery so in this case that eliminates the feed wiring, a quick way to check if the piston is on compression stroke is remove the plug on number one and with you finger in plug hole have someone crank the engine over until you feel compression on your finger. It may take a couple of try’s but once you start to feel compression stop cranking, check front pulley for timing mark. Continue turning slowly until timing mark aligns with pointer. Now inspect the distributor for correct position. Then if it is on number one position check if your points are open correctly as stated by Colin. If they aren’t adjust accordingly, to double check you can hook a light up to the coil negative lead and the distributor wire from the coil. When the points open the light will go out, you don’t have to buy a special test light any 12 volt light will do such as a side light or rear tail light if you have a spare.
Good luck

Originally Posted by Tins

Does the 6cyl LR have a BR? I'm not sure.

Thank you guys for the help and guidance thus far. Appreciate your support

I am familiar with ballast resistor and i didn't see any on the ignition circuit on the engine bay on this one.
I removed the rocker cover and adjusted timing as instructed and looks like i had 180 Degree off. Removed Dizzy hand cranked engine and made sure its on the TDC on first cylinder with a little play on rocker arm.

Tried again it sort of puffs a little more but not enough to start the engine, the line from engine to carby got a bit hot after a while - see attached picture.
The exhaust had a little smoke coming out as i kept cranking.
I tried removing spark plugs and pouring a tiny bit of mineral oil in each cylinder as well.
I manually pulled the choke on carby upon cranking.
The engine did get warm on the carby side but the exhaust headers were still cold upon touching .

Some issue in combustion chamber ? may be valves stuck ?
Not enough spark from Dizzy ?
As i am certain pouring fuel and start ya bastard is enough fuel to fire it.

Where do i start from ? Replace dizzy ? i replaced the ignition leads with a new one. Try with another spare carby i have ?

IMG_4514.jpg16C36AC0-6CF0-432B-B236-50FE1EE1E441.jpg

Apart from plugs, points, leads and maybe distributor cap I'm not a fan of the 'parts cannon' approach. You may eventually get it going but you won't know why. Have you replaced the condensor as well?

Originally Posted by pravin.vala

replaced dizzy, coil from a spare car that was running when I tried with direct fuel.

I have to ask, it may seem insulting but it's not intended that way, is the dizzy you changed to a 6 cyl one? That is, does it have 6 lobes on the cam? I've seen it happen on an Austin...

The comp figures you posted would seem to rule out valves, but they are low. One reason for that could be slow cranking caused by a low battery, a high resistance in the wire to the starter, a faulty starter, or a bad or missing earth connection from body/chassis to engine. Apart from possibly causing low comps, all of those things could rob the engine of good spark. Weak spark and low comps could cause unwillingness to start. One thing you could try, if you have a second battery handy, would be to connect one battery directly to the coil to eliminate that possibility.

BTW, did you trace that hose? If that is coming from the manifold you need to connect it, or at least block it. Check for any open pipes and hoses from the inlet manifold. Could be as simple as that.

Sorry to throw things at you, but remote diagnosis is difficult.

Originally Posted by Tins

Apart from plugs, points, leads and maybe distributor cap I'm not a fan of the 'parts cannon' approach. You may eventually get it going but you won't know why. Have you replaced the condensor as well?




I have to ask, it may seem insulting but it's not intended that way, is the dizzy you changed to a 6 cyl one? That is, does it have 6 lobes on the cam? I've seen it happen on an Austin...

The comp figures you posted would seem to rule out valves, but they are low. One reason for that could be slow cranking caused by a low battery, a high resistance in the wire to the starter, a faulty starter, or a bad or missing earth connection from body/chassis to engine. Apart from possibly causing low comps, all of those things could rob the engine of good spark. Weak spark and low comps could cause unwillingness to start. One thing you could try, if you have a second battery handy, would be to connect one battery directly to the coil to eliminate that possibility.

BTW, did you trace that hose? If that is coming from the manifold you need to connect it, or at least block it. Check for any open pipes and hoses from the inlet manifold. Could be as simple as that.

Sorry to throw things at you, but remote diagnosis is difficult.

Hi mate yes they both are identical 6 cylinder engines one was 7/80 and the other was 10/80 manufactured - series 3 -6 cylinders . By lobes you mean 6 cylinders ? yes both dizzy were 6 cylinders with 6 leads to each cylinder and a centre coil lead. The block has 6 cylinders if that helps

Batteries - Battery is brand new from my 6 cylinder Merc with higher cranking amps. I have direct wire to coil + from battery positive. Negative i wire brushed on frame under starter and starter is going well and engine spins freely without hesitation and at good RPM as per my basic knowledge.

The open hose is going all the way to fuel tank so may be some sort of vacuum or breather ?

The other hose - My picture with finger pointed at it, under the carbs from engine block is connected and that is the one that was hot and had misfires like guns popping out of that one when i removed from carby housing inlet.

Originally Posted by pravin.vala

Hi mate yes they both are identical 6 cylinder engines one was 7/80 and the other was 10/80 manufactured - series 3 -6 cylinders . By lobes you mean 6 cylinders ? yes both dizzy were 6 cylinders with 6 leads to each cylinder and a centre coil lead. The block has 6 cylinders if that helps

There is a cam inside the distributor that opens the points. I think Tins is asking to check that cam actually has 6 bumps on it because it may be possible to fit a 6 pot cap to a 4 pot distributor.

I don't know whether it is or isn't possible for that to occur on that motor, but it's something worth checking.