Thread: help with S3 vs holden gearbox issue

Check all the engine/gearbox mounts - if some are U/S this can cause shudder in the drive train.

Likewise clutch/flywheel issues can also cause similar symptoms - ie the flywheel may not be true and can cause the clutch to bite and release when it is being slipped on takeoff - oil on the clutch can also cause this.

Garry

1. Check handbrake is not dragging.

2. Check for loose or broken engine mounts or brackets

3. Have a close look at the throttle linkage, bearing in mind that it is not original - a cable is fine, but if it uses mechanical linkage the engine movement may be changing the throttle opening in such a way as to build up the problem.

4. If all of these are OK have a look at the clutch for oil or something loose. You may be able to do this by removing the gearlever bracket to give an inspection opening - I know you can on the S1/2/2a, not sure about S3.

Note that the problem may be more than one of the above, and fixing one may be only part of the solution.

John

You would be surprised the major problems with stuffed engine and gearbox mounts. To understand the rover box, remember that the output to the rear is off center to the input and if the mounts are stuffed you will have a leverage/twist issue. And that can cause huge shudders and cluncks.
I had a turbo saab with stuffed engine mounts, when i strapped it to the subframe I got the best take off and smooth shifts under heavy acceleration. Before that, the take off was shuddering and almost stalling.
I would start there, and see how it goes.
Oh and you should not be having problems starting the holden 186. with a 3/4 choke and maybe one tap on the peddle, it should burst to life.

Originally Posted by Jimmy

Hi all,

So the problem is that at low revs (i.e in a car park or at about 3-5kphr) in first and reverse the the engine/box jumps around like it wants to escape. There is quite loud clunking noises and the car skips a bit until I fully release the clutch and it jumps off the line. It bassically does not like going slow. It dosent change if I rev more or ride the clutch, and only slightly changes when the car is warmed up. I know nothing about gearboxs but I'm wondering if these is a loose chain belt in there or the holden converstion is being rejected by the landrover parts. or maybe the gearing is just all messed up somehow...

For reference its a 79' S3 ex-army with a 186. the rest is standard.

Also, the engine is vvvery hard to start in the mornings (warm or cold day), so not sure if that has anything to do with it??

thanks in advance

Jim

sweet thanks guys,

Its definitely not the engine mounts, I've triple checked them. But maybe the gearbox mounts?? hmmm.. but I doubt that. I'll check all the other points raised and get back to you all .


as for the cheeky 186, I've had a few and this is the only one that dosent like mornings. choking or pumping accelerator dosent help and the starter motor whines for about 2-4mins before it fires into life. It will burn out one day. It does fire quicker when I cover the carb intake and starve oxygen. I'm sure its something simple, but my mechanic skills are simple to...

cheers
Jim

I had a Ser 3 1978 model 6 cyl which after many years a 186 holden was added. I did not have any problems with shuddering etc. The only problem I had was when I would be driving in the southern states in the cooler air it would often stall when you would stop at lights or even slow down then want to plant the foot. It would happen after I had been driving for a few hours so it was not a cold motor. Icing of Carby?? It did not happen in the tropics where it was normally used except for a couple of times when it had been raining and the humidity was 100% and a coolish 30C.
I believe the mechanic who did the conversion remove a pipe? to the carby as it caused problems in the tropics.

A few qns, sounds fuel related.
What pump are you running? maech or elec?
what carb? Stromberge? does it have the 'anti percolating valve' on the top.
Do you have a non return valve inline near the carb?

I have had problems with the fuel draining back to the tank over night or a few days. ( i think a old or not perfect diaphragm causes this)
Also a not great diaphragm can have less pump pressure and could be part of the problem.
I also find with the mech pump you need to crank the engine for ages to pump the fuel to the carb.( a very inefficient method if you ask me).
A simple part fix is to put a non return valve in line so the fuel is held inline from the valve to the carb, ready to start. once running the pump can catch up quickly.
I now run a elec pump and turn the ignition on till the pump sound slows and i know it has full pressure to the carb. now the engine burst to life within 1-2 revolutions.
The anti perc valve can also let the fuel dry out from the carb if left to sit for weeks on end.

One reason your engine starts better with a covered carb throat could be that it is causing a vacuum in the float bowl helping suck the fuel through.

Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by Jimmy

sweet thanks guys,

Its definitely not the engine mounts, I've triple checked them. But maybe the gearbox mounts?? hmmm.. but I doubt that. I'll check all the other points raised and get back to you all .


as for the cheeky 186, I've had a few and this is the only one that dosent like mornings. choking or pumping accelerator dosent help and the starter motor whines for about 2-4mins before it fires into life. It will burn out one day. It does fire quicker when I cover the carb intake and starve oxygen. I'm sure its something simple, but my mechanic skills are simple to...

cheers
Jim

Originally Posted by Sideroad

A few qns, sounds fuel related.
What pump are you running? maech or elec?
what carb? Stromberge? does it have the 'anti percolating valve' on the top.
Do you have a non return valve inline near the carb?

I have had problems with the fuel draining back to the tank over night or a few days. ( i think a old or not perfect diaphragm causes this)
Also a not great diaphragm can have less pump pressure and could be part of the problem.
I also find with the mech pump you need to crank the engine for ages to pump the fuel to the carb.( a very inefficient method if you ask me).
A simple part fix is to put a non return valve in line so the fuel is held inline from the valve to the carb, ready to start. once running the pump can catch up quickly.
I now run a elec pump and turn the ignition on till the pump sound slows and i know it has full pressure to the carb. now the engine burst to life within 1-2 revolutions.
The anti perc valve can also let the fuel dry out from the carb if left to sit for weeks on end.

One reason your engine starts better with a covered carb throat could be that it is causing a vacuum in the float bowl helping suck the fuel through.

Hope this helps.

Interesting comments, cheers,

As far as I can tell the holden engine is a 186 with standard Stomberg carby. The vehicle is only driven about 3-ish times a month, so maybe your on to something with the fuel pressure. As for the fuel pump, its the type that go's "tick tick tick tick tick", and I usually let the ticks slow right down before I kick it over, and it still takes for ever.

Other factors: I live in Perth - hot, cold or dry its the same situation. If I roll start it, it fires straight away and drives off no worries. After the initial drive (anywhere from 2kms to infinity), it will kick over straight away. It just dosent liek getting up in the morning.

As for the jumping and clunking in at low speed, its till happens.. I'll just have to drive fast. Oh and did I meaniton it dosent matetr if I ride the clucth, rev it up or down or anything, it just jumps around. Maybe it is an engine mount that I just can't see.

Does anyone in the Perth area no a good Series machanic??

cheers
Jim

You have an electric fuel pump fitted somewhere, probably under the seat. The Holden engine had a mechanical pump on the driver's side of the engine down next to the engine mount bracket, though I've seen these removed and blanked off to clear the bracket. If you leave the engine standing for long periods the needle and seat in the Stromberg carb can stick open or closed. The only way I know to free it quickly is to tap vigourously on the carb above the fuel inlet. It works on my FC. Otherwise a carb overhaul kit is needed.
I added an electric fuel pump to my swb to fix a vapourising problem. It sits under the seatbox after the ex-mil fuel tap. Each time I'd stop (especially in the Build-Up) to stretch my legs, the mechanical pump would overheat and develop serious problems lifting fuel. I'd only get a few hundred yards down the road and it'd cark it. I don't get that now. I left the mechanical pump in place and working, since I had not long rebuilt it looking for the problem.

Dan.
69 2a 88" pet4, 74 3 109" pet4, 68 2b FC pet6.