Thread: my old girl wont start...

Originally Posted by series3

Thanks dandlandyman, it is the solenoid. goes to show i really know what im talking about .

i had a look at all my terminal fixings, they seem fine enough. there is a bit of mud and dirt around, but the terminals on the battery, solenoid and starter motor are all (what i think to be) satisfactory. however, the solenoid just keeps clicking away.

i have heard that a faulty solenoid can hold onto charge and not send it out, is this common?

would i be right to beleieve that the fact that the solenoid is clicking is evidence that my battery is okay?

about cranking, breaking a thumb or wrist sounds like something i would do; might wait for a more experienced hand to oversee that. just out of interest, is it a clockwise or counter clockwise motion to crank it?

The clicking solenoid is almost certainly the battery or connections rather than the solenoid. If the solenoid is faulty (it happens, but not often), you usually get a single click but no action from the starter, although it can be the starter or the wiring between the starter and solenoid. if there is not even a click it will be the solenoid or more likely the ignition switch or wiring or a dead flat battery.

A click-click-click when the starter is operated means that as soon as the starter draws current the voltage drops low enough that the solenoid disengages, but then as the voltage rises, the cycle is repeated until you release the key. The reason for the voltage drop will be either a faulty battery (my problem a couple of weeks ago), a flat battery (due to lack of use, leaving something on, or a faulty alternator), or, most likely, a faulty connection, typically one on the actual battery.

This situation can be confirmed by the following tests -
Switch the headlights on (if they are dim, problem is battery or connections) - operate the starter. If the headlights stay bright, it is a solenoid or starter fault or the wiring between them. If the lights dim badly, it is connections or battery. Immediately after trying this, feel the temperature of the connections at the battery and on the solenoid to try and locate the problem. Another likely problem is the earth connection. if the negative of the battery does not go to the engine, there will be an earth strap somewhere between the engine and chassis with a potentially faulty connection at both ends.

John

once youve established that the battery is ok...

grab a nice shiney spanner about ph 15/16thsish and then just short out the 2 big screw terminals on the solenoid.....

oh make sure its out of gear first...

Originally Posted by JDNSW

The clicking solenoid is almost certainly the battery or connections rather than the solenoid. If the solenoid is faulty (it happens, but not often), you usually get a single click but no action from the starter, although it can be the starter or the wiring between the starter and solenoid. if there is not even a click it will be the solenoid or more likely the ignition switch or wiring or a dead flat battery.

the solenoid does only click once with each turn of the key, no more. I checked the connections, and they seem strong. i couldnt get the connection off the starter motor to clean it up, so i suppose that is good enough so it's not going anywhere. The wiring itself looks fine and is in a nice thick insulation, albeit a bit dirty.

I have tried shorting the solenoid out with a spanner on the chassis, a nice thick spark comes out of the left-hand side wiring of the solenoid, but not the right... is this indicative of a faulty solenoid?

Im not with the car at the moment, so ill have to let you know when i get back to her.

Cheers,

assuming that your shorting the terminals to each other and not to earth.. yes thats normal, its even normal if your trying to short the terminals to earth...

the quality and duration of the spark will give you some clues as to where the problem can lie...

if you get a sad little spark youve got connectivity but a bad connection somewhere in the circut (which includes all the bits inside the startermotor)

if you get a nice fat spark that then dies off you have crud in the brushes/stator contacts OR you have wet brushes

if you can immitate arc welding with the thing then you have a seized starter motor

all of this assumes that you have a good battery.

if you use only the points of the open ended side of the spanner to bridge the 2 large terminals of the solenoid and you hold the spanned on with your fingers on the other side of the points pushing them onto the terminals AND you can hold your fingers there for more than 10 seconds you have a high resistance somewhere in the loop. (or a flat battery)


can you get the crank to move by hand? (using either the crank handle or the old push on the fan belt and yank the fan trick)

[QUOTE=Blknight.aus;838665] if you get a nice fat spark that then dies off you have crud in the brushes/stator contacts OR you have wet brushes

all of this assumes that you have a good battery.[QUOTE]

this could explain it, i got her a bit muddy a couple of weeks ago and gave the undercarraige a good blast to clear the mud out, i just presumed that the starter motor would be tightly sealed enough to be waterproof... perhaps i was wrong.

Shorting out the alternator gives a good spark that last a while, then dies away, only to spark up nicely again when the solenoid fills back up with charge.

may have to look at getting the starter motor replaced/refurbished?

I think the first thing you should do is buy yourself a test light. They're not at all expensive. Trying to find a contact problem by shorting it out to see a spark isn't my idea of good practice. Then get yourself an "apprentice" to try starting it while you check for power all along the way. It won't tell you exactly what's wrong, but it will help isolate the faulty component.

A friend of mine had a TEA20 Ferguson which suddenly decided not to start. His diagnosis was to replace the starter switch in the top of the gearbox. Cost: about $50. Using a test light, I found the terminal into the starter motor loose and dirty. Cost: free.

Dan.
69 2A 88" pet4, 74 3 109" pet4, 68 2B FC pet6.

[QUOTE=series3;838945][QUOTE=Blknight.aus;838665] if you get a nice fat spark that then dies off you have crud in the brushes/stator contacts OR you have wet brushes

all of this assumes that you have a good battery.

this could explain it, i got her a bit muddy a couple of weeks ago and gave the undercarraige a good blast to clear the mud out, i just presumed that the starter motor would be tightly sealed enough to be waterproof... perhaps i was wrong.

Shorting out the alternator gives a good spark that last a while, then dies away, only to spark up nicely again when the solenoid fills back up with charge.

may have to look at getting the starter motor replaced/refurbished?

By the the way this post reads you may need some help. If you keep shorting the alternator you will fry the feed to battery. I suspect the battery is to weak to do it anyway. Solinoids do not store charge. If you say it builds up like that it is likely your battery is not 100% As said before turn headlights on and see if the go dull and slowly recover of chop out and come back instant usually after shaking conections. If you have a poor conection they will heat up after a while. Starter can be tested carefully with direct jumper lead hook up from a fresh battery. OUT OF GEAR< HAND BRAKE ON AND PUT BLOCKS IN FRONT OF TYRES. (OR make sure third party insurance is valid)If you do this Conect + (wire to solinoid on neg earth set up)on starter to + on battery. Now conect - on battery and touch it on to engine block away from fuel or carby. It will spark. Do not do it at battery as can explode The starter will spin up if ok. We then work our way along as may be as simple as bad earth. Sorry to be so blunt but we don't like nice people getting hurt Cheers Tony

I dont know what hes doing at the alternator but bypassing the starter solenoid is a common trick....

excluding a flat battery theres only 3 things that routinely go wrong with the 2.25 starting system

the solenoid

the startermotor main power post and brushes

earth connections.

IME about half the time its the solenoid especially when the customer comes in with any line that leads along the line of "well its been getting slower and slower to crank and takes longer and longer to start"