hydrogen fuel

[scruffy]

Hi All, talking to a guy the other day with a BIG yank tank and the conv got around to fuel economy. He said that the official fuel figures are 14mpg and he is getting 21/22mpg after 3000ks using a hydrogen fuel setup. Two rods [of some sort of metal] connected to the battery in a small bottle of water, and a 3mtr hose attached to the bottom of the carby. Does anyone know of this setup and would it be beneficial on an injected veh [V8] Would be a cheap alternative fuel for us V8 owners.
Bob

[Mick_Marsh]

There's one born every minute.
If you want to use hydrogen, go for the fuel cell and electric motor.
Other things to consider, where are you going to fill up with hydrogen? If you think you are going to get enough from two rods, a bottle of water and a battery, think again.
For further research, look up the word "entropy" and also find out how much energy is required to split H2O into H2 and O2 and how much energy you get from combining H2 and O2 into H2O.

[101RRS]

I agree with Mick.

Hydrogen is the fuel of the future but not just yet - when it can be made in an economic and pollution free way it will be great.

Yes with a 12v system bubbles will be produced but no where near enough to produce enough to make any difference in a car.

Garry

[sschmez]

Hey Mick and Garry

I think you've both missed the point.

It's not about using hydrogen as the primary fuel source, it's about using the small quantities of hydrogen produced to burn the existing fuel better.

Think Dieselgas.

There have already been colourful discussions on here with all the naysayers who missed the point.

I'm still interested.
Stevo

[101RRS]

Hey Mick and Garry

I think you've both missed the point.

Sorry - have not missed the point at all - very much appreciate it is not about making the car run on hydrogen but adding a little to fuel. Sorry the jury has make up its mind already - snake oil as constructed.

By all means set up a tank of hydrogen and feed it in like the diesel/lpg process and there is a difference but not a few bubbles generated by the car. The power required from the engine to generate the 12v to turn water into hydrogen is far greater than the energy given back to the engine by burning a minuscule amount of extra hydrogen in the engine.

This has been well proven by many organisations.

Garry

[sschmez]

Thanx for your reply

tells me nothing except your opinion.

please elaborate on how that opinion was formed.
Your qualifications in this field if any.
Links to scientific research.
Who is the "jury"?
What "organisations".

I don't know if this works or not and my searches have shown as many that say it does as those that say it doesn't.
I haven't as yet been convinced either way.
I haven't tried it.

as stated above "I'm interested" in this idea and since dieselgas has gone from snakeoil to accepted technology and it seems to be a similar theory, I'd like to know more.

My understanding of Dieselgas is that by introducing small quantities of gas the existing fuel is burnt more completely and the additional energy is from this more complete burn (less unburnt fuel down the exhaust) rather than the energy introduced/added from the gas.

Stevo

[isuzurover]

My understanding of Dieselgas is that by introducing small quantities of gas the existing fuel is burnt more completely and the additional energy is from this more complete burn (less unburnt fuel down the exhaust) rather than the energy introduced/added from the gas.

This is incorrect. As I posted in one of the previous threads.

The supporters of these systems claim that the presence of hydrogen changes the combustion process to make it more efficient. However I cannopt find any scientific research which supports this. There are papers which show significant changes in combustion processes by adding H2, however only once you get to 15-20% H2 in the fuel.

And for anyone drawing parallels between these systems and the "diesel gas" type systems, they use a ratio of around 25L of LPG to every 100L of diesel.

The systems you are talking about make about 0.5% H2.

But - why not build one and prove us all wrong???

[Mick_Marsh]

I was going to launch into a big speel but sometimes, well, ..................
I will say, working in the petrochem industry, it is in my interests if you all use more fuel.

Good luck. I look forward to reading about your experimental trials and empirically derived, independently verifiable results.

Oh, and could you please post up the qualifications of and scientific research done by the owner of the big yank tank you spoke to. I assume you asked him for those as well. I'm sure you wouldn't have accepted his opinion.

[bee utey]

Mythbusters built one. Fitted it to a yank tank. It didn't work.

If you go ahead and build one yourself, don't forget to do a tune-up while you fit the hydrogen to get the best out of it, it is bound to improve the results claimed...

[101RRS]

Thanx for your reply

tells me nothing except your opinion.

please elaborate on how that opinion was formed.
Your qualifications in this field if any.
Links to scientific research.
Who is the "jury"?
What "organisations".

I don't know if this works or not and my searches have shown as many that say it does as those that say it doesn't.
I haven't as yet been convinced either way.
I haven't tried it.

as stated above "I'm interested" in this idea and since dieselgas has gone from snakeoil to accepted technology and it seems to be a similar theory, I'd like to know more.

My understanding of Dieselgas is that by introducing small quantities of gas the existing fuel is burnt more completely and the additional energy is from this more complete burn (less unburnt fuel down the exhaust) rather than the energy introduced/added from the gas.

Stevo

Not qualified

I read a lot and have a scientific aptitude

I looked at the scientific reports not testimonials

I am not going to do your work for you and waste my time to go an pull the SCIENTIFIC information - you can google it yourself

I know hydrogen will work at a similar ratio to fuel mix as a diesel/lpg mix but the levels are so low to not make a difference when generated in the car as you mentioned - as I said the energy required to generate the hydrogen is greater than the energy it gives in burning. Same applied in industrial processes - that is why hydrogen is not generally available in tanks to run your car on.

Look for the scientific testing not testimonials.

Garry