Swaggie
It is quite real.Originally Posted by Michael2
There is a patent on this and apparently BMW did some experiments to look at feasibility (BMW since went on to develop cars with high-pressure hydrogen storage instead - so that should say something).
Hydrogen supply unit - US Patent 4702894
Taking those claims at face value, the system requires 18kW of electrical energy, to power a 500cc (petrol) engine.A unit substantially as shown in the drawings has been used to drive a 500 cc motor cycle engine. The wire 22 had a diameter of 1,6 mm and was of commercial purity (98% Al). The unit produced over 1000 cc of hydrogen a minute, with an aluminium
wire consumption rate of 140 to 180 cm per minute. The rate of deposition of aluminium oxide was about 4 kilograms per 500 kilometers travelled.
Conventional modifications were made to the carburettor to enable the engine to run on a mixture of hydrogen and air.
The wire 22 carries a voltage of about 18000 volts with a current of about 1 amp.
The invention may equally be used to power stationary industrial engines, as well as motor vehicle engines.
An average 500cc motorbike engine back then could be expected to produce a maximum of about 36kW of power. However, running on hydrogen produces about a 20% loss of power (based on real-world data). For simplicity, lets say 8kW are lost.
So it takes 18kW of energy to run an engine that produces 28kW. So assuming your alternator and drivetrain are 100% efficient, you now have a maximum of 10kW at the wheels, instead of 36.
Now with a rate of aluminium MIG wire consumption of 180 cm/min (or 108m/hr). What's the best price you can get a 7kg roll of 1mm mig wire for? $150ish? So that means just under $5/hr to run at current prices.
If the same engine averages 3l/100km, it would also cost about $5/hr to run, but you would have 3.5* the power at the wheels.
ForumSage
The interesting thing is.
Brown was a fraud, his devices couldn't do what was claimed. Same with Stanley Meyer and his "water fuel cell".
Ever heard of Dennis Lee? Proponent of free-energy devices who is helping to lighten the wallets of people all around the world. He sells a lot of these systems along with PICC, HAFC and a lot of other ancronyms designed to sound impressive.
Why can't people learn from history?
Wizard
............i have seen these stories (almost urban myths by now) you would be hard pressed to produce the energy if i am wrong i have a hat ready to eat ....it's a bit like the anti bio posse claiming that bio eats your head and turns your car into a submarine or some such bull...the net has some useful informed stuff but a lot of bull too regards
Swaggie
Well said Dougal - very true.
I think there are 2 things here:
People love the idea of getting something for nothing
People like the idea that some backyard inventer has made some groundbreaking discovery...
I am just amazed about how much interest and publicity these frauds get - when their devices clearly break the law of conservation of energy...
Btw - in case anyone is interested, I cut and posted my "back of the envelope" analysis from the other thread - since it was locked.
The supporters of these systems claim that the presence of hydrogen changes the combustion process to make it more efficient. However I cannopt find any scientific research which supports this. There are papers which show significant changes in combustion processes by adding H2, however only once you get to 15-20% H2 in the fuel.
And for anyone drawing parallels between these systems and the "diesel gas" type systems, they use a ratio of around 25L of LPG to every 100L of diesel.
ForumSage
Don't forget that these backyard inventors can "think outside the box" and "aren't constrained by the scientific thought process".
That is, after all, how birds fly. They don't know or care about gravity, so it doesn't affect them.
Swaggie
I am not knocking backyard inventors, many of them have come up with some great inventions!Don't forget that these backyard inventors can "think outside the box" and "aren't constrained by the scientific thought process".
That is, after all, how birds fly. They don't know or care about gravity, so it doesn't affect them.
ForumSage
I'm not knocking general backyard inventors. Just those hell-bent on perpetual motion.
Swaggie
Indeed. The laws of physics/thermodynamics remain the same inside AND outside the boxI'm not knocking general backyard inventors. Just those hell-bent on perpetual motion.
Master
I'd like to find a way of running my car on $100 notes.
This would save me valuable time at the petrol station.
Perhaps even just have my engine electronically linked to my bank account so it just runs on available funds!!
OldBushie
I personally think that from now on we will have a mix of fuels to power the world as nothing is as good as what we have now,that is why we use it.I also think that people will loose money trying to save it as seen by the amount of people who have sold a car that uses 12ltrs per hundred and bought one that uses only 6ltrs and then brag about how much their saving.The fact they took out a loan and are paying far more in payments than they ever did in fuel doesn't come into it. Pat
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