Thread: Hydrogen Fuel

The interesting thing is.
Brown was a fraud, his devices couldn't do what was claimed. Same with Stanley Meyer and his "water fuel cell".

Ever heard of Dennis Lee? Proponent of free-energy devices who is helping to lighten the wallets of people all around the world. He sells a lot of these systems along with PICC, HAFC and a lot of other ancronyms designed to sound impressive.

Why can't people learn from history?

Originally Posted by cartm58

At a going away reception for the receptionist at site, l was talking to an engineer who drives a Discovery D2 TD5 and he was saying that he has imported a piece of kit from Italy to convert the D2 to run on Hydrogen gas and he would be making his own hydrogen gas a litre of distilled water makes 18,000 litres of gas and he was also going to convert his home heating to Hydrogen gas. He was saying biggest problem was finding space within engine bay for the conversion equipment as he wanted to keep piping as shot as possible for the Hydrogen gas.

I will try and get some better details from him when l go back to site next week and post.

Anyone else heard of the conversion process and is it only suitable for Diesel powered vehicles

............i have seen these stories (almost urban myths by now) you would be hard pressed to produce the energy if i am wrong i have a hat ready to eat ....it's a bit like the anti bio posse claiming that bio eats your head and turns your car into a submarine or some such bull...the net has some useful informed stuff but a lot of bull too regards

Well said Dougal - very true.

I think there are 2 things here:
People love the idea of getting something for nothing
People like the idea that some backyard inventer has made some groundbreaking discovery...

I am just amazed about how much interest and publicity these frauds get - when their devices clearly break the law of conservation of energy...

Btw - in case anyone is interested, I cut and posted my "back of the envelope" analysis from the other thread - since it was locked.

Originally Posted by isuzurover

OK how about a "back of the envelope" analysis of these hydrogen electolysis systems (talking about the add-on systems to a petrol or diesel here).

You have an engine running on petrol or diesel, let's say it produces 100kW or power.

The engine is fitted with a 100A Alternator. 100A x 13.5V = 1.35kW (power produced) - it would probably take at least 1.5-2kW of engine power to turn the alternator.

So let's say all of the 1.35kW is available for electrolysis.

Water electrolysis has a theoretical maximum of about 80-90% efficiency (efficiency at converting the electrical energy to H2 + O2) - note that that is theoretical, most systems are much worse.

However let's say we have 80% efficiency. So we get 0.8*1.35 = 1.08kW.

Now a typical engine is at best about 30% efficient at turning fuel into power. So we would really have about 0.3kW of power generated by the fuel.

So - bottom line, is that even if the power of the alternator is "free", and the alternator was ONLY running the electrolysis. We could expect <1% difference in fuel consumption. (also assuming the fuel metering was adjusted to compensate).

The supporters of these systems claim that the presence of hydrogen changes the combustion process to make it more efficient. However I cannopt find any scientific research which supports this. There are papers which show significant changes in combustion processes by adding H2, however only once you get to 15-20% H2 in the fuel.

And for anyone drawing parallels between these systems and the "diesel gas" type systems, they use a ratio of around 25L of LPG to every 100L of diesel.

Originally Posted by isuzurover

W
People like the idea that some backyard inventer has made some groundbreaking discovery...

Don't forget that these backyard inventors can "think outside the box" and "aren't constrained by the scientific thought process".

That is, after all, how birds fly. They don't know or care about gravity, so it doesn't affect them.

Originally Posted by Dougal

Don't forget that these backyard inventors can "think outside the box" and "aren't constrained by the scientific thought process".

That is, after all, how birds fly. They don't know or care about gravity, so it doesn't affect them.

I am not knocking backyard inventors, many of them have come up with some great inventions!

Originally Posted by isuzurover

I am not knocking backyard inventors, many of them have come up with some great inventions!

I'm not knocking general backyard inventors. Just those hell-bent on perpetual motion.

Originally Posted by Dougal

I'm not knocking general backyard inventors. Just those hell-bent on perpetual motion.

Indeed. The laws of physics/thermodynamics remain the same inside AND outside the box

I'd like to find a way of running my car on $100 notes.

This would save me valuable time at the petrol station.

Perhaps even just have my engine electronically linked to my bank account so it just runs on available funds!!