Rebuild 200Tdi Defender or go for a Puma?

[samuelclarke]

Rebuild our 200Tdi 110 Defender or go for a newer 110 Puma?

This is the question I've been debating back and forward for the last few months. My wife's given her input as have friends, so I thought I'd ask AULRO too! We've just got a diesel Hyundai i30 as our daily driver (great car btw - 5l/100km ) so it's finally possible to take the Defender off the road and rebuild if we choose to go that way.

Defender is a 1992 build with 430,000km in the clock. I've replaced the gearbox (plus new clutch) and transfer case, upgraded to disc brakes on the back, stainless steel exhaust, winch bar and rock sliders, NAS lights, wiring upgrade and new TerraFirma +2in suspension upgrade with shocks, springs and hardware. Engine is going great, but needs a couple of $1k's spent on scheduled maintenance - radiator, head gasket. Doors need replacing (except for rear door - it's new) as does firewall and the chassis has a couple of rust spots.

Plans for a rebuild would include new galvanised chassis, firewall and doors, with a respray and upgraded interior including new seats and soundproofing, and a roll cage if funds will stretch. Basically it would be my dream expedition vehicle.

I'm leaning towards a rebuild over new as I love our current Defender and we have plans within the next 10 years to do a lap of Australia and then ship it overseas - America, Europe and Africa.

However, leaving feelings aside and making a decision based on what's the best option is hard. Should I spend $15,000 to $20,000 (my initial costings come to around this amount) rebuilding the 200tdi or sell the old girl, save up and buy a used/new Puma for $40,000 to $50,000? What are your thoughts fellow Defender owners?

[tonic]

As I am doing the rebuild of a 300tdi 110 to do long term planned trips, I would go rebuild.

You know what you have and what it will do, it would be better than original from your plans plus what you have already done, I think.

If you go Puma, which I would not be against, you would then want to do upgrades etc. Your costing only allowed for the purchase, what else would you then spend?

The only thing I would consider in the rebuild is going 300tdi. There seem to be more parts available, or at least a fair bit less expensive than 200tdi parts, from what I have seen.

[LowRanger]

As the owner of 2 200Tdi's,I will make a totally unbias decision,and say,do the old girl up.You have already invested in doing the gearbox and clutch,and a disc brake conversion.You can then do the types of mods that suit what you want and not necessarily have to put up with something that the manufacturer wants you to have in a new vehicle.New doors etc. are available ex U.K.and I know a lot of the new Ford powered Defenders will let you know how great and reliable they are,there is always an underlying doubt,in my mind for an expedition vehicle regarding all the electronics.Something you don't have to worry about with the old Tdi.

[Johnno1969]

I'll give you an entirely biased reply, for what it's worth. I love 200Tdi Defenders and am very attached to my own one. If you don't mind spending a bit of time and money to overhaul your 200, go for it - and if you're going to be driving the vehicle around Africa, definitely go for the earlier vehicle.

Then again, I once drove a friend's Puma and was pretty impressed.....

But still keep the 200........

[slug_burner]

Having a 300Tdi Deefer and a Td5 Disco I can say that there are benefits in the newer engine. With the good stuff comes complexity, the Td5 has had the fuel cooler and a leak from one of the fuel hoses that rubbed through back at the tank. The Tdi has had the timing case and gears etc a kit put through it to overcome the chewed timing belt. Overall the simpler motor would be my choice for remote travel.

You haven't told us what your wife and her friends say! You know that a happy wife = happy life. I doubt that you would miss the 200 Tdi over the Puma for noise, performance and aircon, however if the performance is not an issue then the noise you will address via your rebuild and you could address the aircon while your at it.

It sounds pretty drastic to have to replace the chassis and firewall, things must be crook or you really just want to do it to build a vehicle that will outlast you.

I have a sound deadening kit to put in the deefer but if it came to chassis and fire wall I think I would just cut out the cancer and weld in some sound metal.

Plenty of people are out there now using their Puma to do the sort of travel you are planning, you will not be the first if you decide to go down that path. A breakdown could be challenging but will be just part of the memories of how you had to get towed by a donkey to get the Puma repaired or had to fly parts in etc. In the mean time you would be getting the benefits a performance and fuel economy. Not that the 200Tdi would be too shabby on the fuel economy stakes.

Either path will see you a happy man for different reasons.

[manic]

At 430k and with worldwide expeditions in mind I would factor in the cost of an engine rebuild.

I have a 200tdi rebuilt on galv chassis and bulkhead, new doors, recon gbox and tcase etc etc. Spent about $20,000 and shipped it from UK to Auz. The only regret I have is not spending any money/time on the 200tdi.

Shortly after arrival it popped a headgasket and cracked the head. I blame taller gear ratios, fuel pump and intercooler set up. You can crack the head without even seeing the temp needle go into the red! So EGT guage, engine saver, good temp gauge etc should all be fitted now.

If you are going to actually make it do long hard distances around the globe - have the engine properly rebuilt!

If you spend as much as a new puma rebuilding your old defer you would have a MUCH better 4x4 expedition vehicle.

[steane]

I'm getting close to finishing off the rebuild of my 300TDi. Paint and panel work is all that's left really. It's very easy to burn through the dollars, $15-20k will go in the blink of an eye, especially if you are fixing years of neglect, but you do end up with a prime example of the breed and one you know you can rely on and fix yourself if ever needed. The rebuild process teaches you a lot

I could have bought a Puma but I didn't want the new car 'plastic' experience because I've had that with every other car I've owned (still be quite happy to have a Puma though). The older Defenders are a blast to drive when they are fully sorted IMO, but you do trade the modern conveniences for 'the experience' ie air con that works.

Doing the 200TDi up is the way to go. Besides, we have a duty of care to keep these old girls on the road and selling her on may find her in a less than desirable home down the track... How would you live with that!

Keep it!

[manic]

The rebuild process teaches you a lot

...

Keep it!

Yes! That is the greatest value, you get to know the workings of your car inside and out so that when things get tricky you know exactly how to deal with it.

You may not get to pull a new puma apart until you break down in the depths of Africa with no clue other than a dash bulb blinking and some beeps.

[TimNZ]

If you are planning overseas trips it is worth thinking about things like Carnet de Passage costs, in some countries this is many times the value of the vehicle, in this case the 200TDi rebuild would be a better option.

Cheers,

Tim

[samuelclarke]

Thanks for all the replies guys!

My wife doesn't mind the 200Tdi, but at the same time really likes the Pumas (as do I). With our friends, it's a split - the guys are for rebuilding the 200Tdi as they like it, and the girls are mostly for a new one.

The biggest thing I love with the 200Tdi is that I know it well having spent 5 years working on it already - I know most of it's quirks and mannerisms! I've done 130,000kms since I bought Safara and she's never let us down on a trip - maybe the odd small thing, but never something I couldn't fix.

An engine rebuild or swap is something I've also got to factor in, however I'm not too worried about it in the short term as there's a couple of 200Tdi's I know kicking around near the 1 million km mark. However, we'd look at it seriously before shipping the Defender overseas.

We live near Noosa, and are often over on Teewah Beach or Fraser - and while I'm crazy with lanolin and regular rust proofing, the salt does take its toll. The small areas of rust in the chassis are fixable, but I figure a galvanised one with rust proofing is going to be the ultimate.

A very interesting point on the Carnet de Passage - also it's easier bringing in a 25 years or older Defender to the USA.