Quote:
Originally Posted by PAT303
Pat, its been a pain with top end rattle, they have that bucket & shim set up, Nobody seems to be able to get it right!. Its the 4.7l V8 petrol.
Sumo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAT303
Pat, its been a pain with top end rattle, they have that bucket & shim set up, Nobody seems to be able to get it right!. Its the 4.7l V8 petrol.
Sumo
IMO there is a market for the idea of what the defender is and what it COULD be. seperate chassis offers alot of pluses when away from workshops, live axles work very well. Using a Toyo for an example is not so good.....while they do have a good reputaion for certain things the ride isnt one of them......the RR was built in 1970 and rides better...with some good geometry and spring/shocks the Defender can ride very well....and dont rule out a load leveler its not a bad idea either.
what lets rovers down is their predictable unpredictability...plus the usual stupid things like elecs, electrolisis, leaking, under powered (realisticly as a full time work rig) weakest driveline amongst rivals etc etc....bad decisions have been made by LR hq for along time now that have seen the coil sprung land rover take 1 step forward and another back in other areas....
I love them but damn they **** me......
Personal experience with both vehicles makes a mockery of that statement. PatQuote:
Originally Posted by subasurf
Sumo,they are like holden red motors,some are quiet all thier lives,others rattle like a marble in a tin.It is a very time comsuming,hair pulling frustration of a job.And it needs to be done every 100,000k's or you could burn a exhaust valve. PatQuote:
Originally Posted by sumo
Toyota has definitly had a better product in SOME aspects, but one thing is they have a better business plan and exicuition at EVERY level compared to LR hq and LR Au.
not disregarding Pat's experience and other rover owners....Toyota's while not being the 'goldern chariot" some would believe, they aren't a **** heap either
...and the personal experience of many others, doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by PAT303
Toyota is a pretty amazing company if I can be honest. It's featured a fair part in my studies wrt to engineering because it's one of few manufacturers that has a well documented and widely adopted quality philosophy. Auto manufacturing represents a small part of what is a pretty diverse company that is able to succeed at just about anything it takes on because of such a well developed quality system. You only need to do a bit of reading on The Toyota Way and Toyota Production System to get an idea.
And my experience the opposite. Swings and roundabouts at the end of the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by PAT303
If I was given a stack of money for a new 4x4 I'd have a particularly hard time deciding what to buy. I like Toyotas as much as I do Land Rovers.
To provide a bit of balance I'll add that the biggest laugh on forums is people who think a 2nd hand Toyota is going to be faultless compared with a bad experience to their 2nd hand Land Rover. A Toyota still needs to be maintained etc, it's not inherently reliable above and beyond what is reasonably expected. It's also important to bear in mind that 2nd hand vehicles over ten years old are often sold for that reason, they're getting on in age and mileage. I sold my first D1 because I saw big bills coming, I didn't like the 200Tdi + LT77 combo or the appearance of the interior.
I've had zero problems with my D1 for well over 50,000km now, once I started using a proper LR specialist and learnt to ignore many "problems". I suspect my head gasket needs replacing, but I'm not doing a preventative, when there's irrefutable evidence it needs doing, I will, that could be tomorrow or the next owner's problem. I was concerned about half a circlip that drained out of my old LT77, but it never caused a problem during my tenure and a panic rebuild would have been money wasted.
I have no problems with my 1998 Tdi 300 Disco after 100000 km and I am happy with my Defe after correcting some problems because the maintenance and services was not do properly before I got it.
I believe that the LR vehicles are as good ad reliable as any other brand as long as the services and maintenance it is done correctly.
I had an 80 series diesel landcruiser. I would have taken it on any trip. I took it throught the Kimberleys and across the Simpson. Never gave the slightest trouble. However, it had a faultless service history and had done just above 100,000km.
My 95 D1 on the other hand inspired no confidence. I did all the standard prep work before a big 8,000km trip. And yes, my concerns were well founded. The brakes failed at one point and the gearbox at another. The difference? Well it had done 380,000km!
So now I have had plenty of time to consider things. The brake failure was caused by a split rubber brake hose, and given its age would have happened on any vehicle. The gearbox failure was caused by me overtightening the oil pump screws and distorting the backing plate - causing the oil to leak and the box to run dry.
So, with plenty of thought I have come to this conclusion: the Landcruiser is much simpler with less to go wrong. Also the quality control is excellent. The Land Rover is more comfortable, has more features, more technology, is more powerful, more efficient and has more to go wrong. The quality control is not quite as good. I miss the 80 series, but the Land Rover is in my blood! As I overhaul things and learn its many foibles, I will regain confidence in having it as a reliable touring machine. This forum has helped me do that, and I can proudly say I have also been able to help others with my experiences.
It seems we will always struggle with this Land Rover vs Toyota thing. If you don't like getting your hands dirty, then maybe a Landcruiser is for you. But the Land Rover has so much potential for being a better vehicle. It just takes some knowledge and good maintenance to get it there.