Nope I haven't run them and never will. Beside the legalities I just don't see the point. Just like nitrogen filled tyres really. Except nitrogen filled tyres aren't technically illegal here.Quote:
Originally Posted by rovercare
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Nope I haven't run them and never will. Beside the legalities I just don't see the point. Just like nitrogen filled tyres really. Except nitrogen filled tyres aren't technically illegal here.Quote:
Originally Posted by rovercare
what about this question, those that have gone to unretained, have they up graded there springs etc to suit that system and have the tried to maximise a retained system?Quote:
Originally Posted by rovercare
Myself, no i havent tried unretained.....why? because I respect the opinions of guys ALOT smarter than me that have wheeled 100'hrs more than me from play to full comp....drop out springs and relocation cones are not new by anymeans... they were popular in USA about 10 years ago untill they tried it all and found the pros and cons....and moved on.
the xeng droop spring was done by safari gard years ealrier along with the 3 links that some uk comapnies make....IMO the UK is about 7 years behind in suspention design...but I have seen some nice mods on 90's that have been stretched out to 100 and use new links front and rear.....have a good look at the Gigglepin comp truck ;) and devon4x4 90/100 conversion...
for some good reading go over to Pirate4x4 and look up strangerover, triaged, Biggervalves puffdragon frakenrover to name a few.
Bill Larman aka portalrover/daddylonglegs/agrover is a wealth of knowledge and its a shame hes not about so much....but he got sick of the cheerleading on some forums
some of the guys here that I listern to are: Bush65, Slunnie, IsuzuRover, Dougal, Rick130, BLKnight to name but a few....
btw im just a bum chippy that surfs
Serg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougal
I don't look at pirate, all this is far out of what I want to achieve, see airbags http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-t...ra-cab-30.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by uninformed
I just don't get the fact that those who have dislocating coils, are more than happy, yet you haven't personally tried them, I mean I've read a heap of times that cooper tyres are the best, but I'm hardly running out to buy them on that advice;)
Funny though, one of the Rangies I wrecked quite a few years ago, was a neighbour of Bills and used to drive with him, he also helped alot with his suspension, massive travel rear shocks, inboard with a box in the floor to house them and ............disclocating coils
BTW, I'm just a bum sparky who drinks:D
well the hype behind cooper tyres may be finacially motivated :D....and remember when it comes to humans we like to feel good about decisions we make based on many levels....those that are happy with dislocating etc are they basing it on gut feeling and how good their truck looks with 3 feet of air between the tyre and arch or is it actually based on performance...Quote:
Originally Posted by rovercare
when guys that know their stuff are out there trying a range of combinations under smilar or same terrain and looking/tuning/analiysing purley based on performance without and end result already in mind.....and clearly explain their findings, I litsern
as humans we do plenty of things as a group mentality based on so called best or better practice....when it really isnt :( Im sure i'm guilty of this on more than one occasion
Plus my spellinga and grammer sucks :eek:
But if your dislocating cones and unretaind springs are working for you and you have fun in your LR/TOY/NISSAN/JEEP then all is good :)
Dannie.. I think really it comes down to what you are going to use the vehicle for.. If you want to build it for events where you have slow winch type stages as well as a little bit of high speed.. then I probably wouldnt go with dislocation. I also probably wouldnt go with the softest springs you could get you hands on either. You need to have some firmer springs to get some traction happening. Realistically, the only way these days to try and get the best of both worlds is to go coil over which can run a softer "retaining" spring. The gigglepin long arm kit looks the goods too (just need to try and balance that with front end flex).. Do you remember the 100" that was at west oz?? That had some of the longest arms I have seen in a long time. Would have loved to of seen that 4b flex.
Well as a comparison to max's pics, heres some of mine, its definitely lost a LITTLE in the front but that doesnt bother me, and no i havnt done a thing to the front at all yet. Just havnt got around to it as i destroyed a couple of motors in the meantime. And yes i can see the point about the link geometry in the rear but i am hoping to do something about that....
In my opinion i DO think there is usable flex past the point where the spring dislocates from real world driving without considering the geometry behind it. If i was to go longer softer springs i would risk coil bind at full compression and probobly gain way to much lift. This setup works well.
Retained.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...011/11/985.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...011/11/984.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...10/06/1818.jpg
Dislocation.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...011/11/988.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...010/06/444.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...011/11/987.jpg
and a video in some fairly serious "Wombat holes" - they start at the 1:30sec mark
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6x_PTX_tHU&feature=channel"]YouTube- medowie2[/nomedia]
And another - on this little section normally without dislocation i would lift a wheel at the bottom and loose forward momentum taking this line. It doesnt look like much but its enough to drop the spring out.... trust me i know, ive seen to many rangies loose springs on this one ;)
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R0GFJXOFtU"]YouTube- My county in the wallaroo quarry.[/nomedia]
BTW im not here to argue,,.. you have your opinions i have mine, just dont try pushing them on to me and we are all good. Perhaps we can let everyone else form there own too.
There are no end of happy snake oil owners out there. Pick your product, doesn't matter, you'll find people who are deliriously happy with things that don't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by rovercare
I've come across bike owners with siezed suspension forks who think they're brilliant and work great.
As I've already said, articulation and traction are not the same thing. Just because your wheels are on the ground, doesn't mean they're doing anything.
But some people just can't see past the great increase in articulation. It's the same mentality with ricers who just want the biggest wheels and be damned with the missing performance.
What are my plans? Well I'm trying to find a nice 92-94 rangie with the air suspension still intact.
It's nothing like a coilover.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slunnie
Coilovers use stacked springs to get a spring curve which transitions smoothly from a softer rate to a stiffer one. Basically long and customisable spring progression.
The X thing is just a second spring to push your old one back onto it's seat. They're saying 500lb force when seated and 10 inches of suspension. That works out to 50lb/in spring rate on the internal springs which has a step transition to the 200+ lb/in of your main springs.
Looking at Cal415's videos it looks like the unretained does pretty well :)
Watching it - to me it looks like the unretained rear can increase traction - on the front wheels.
As the rear axle been unretained essentially gets rid of the rear axle weight that wants to lift the front wheels, thus more traction ??
Regarding how much traction is available just from unsprung weight, (ie dislocated) I can say it does make a difference, particularly if running a Sals :D
Played this game years ago, and letting the rear end droop with longer dampers enabled me to get through sections I couldn't traverse previously without wheel spin with shorter (standard length) shocks (retained if you will)
If I ran a locker it wouldn't have mattered.
I run a retained rear these days as it balances the travel better with the front and feels nicer from the drivers seat with the front end working more appropriately.
The clanging and banging drove me nuts too, but just because there isn't a spring there doesn't mean there isn't traction ;)