Thread: Towing with a Defender?

Originally Posted by Mr Whippy

Something that I have pondered is this. When using a weight distribution hitch you are transferring some weight from the rear wheels to the front wheels. I am therefore wondering if you did put 350kg on the ball, but by transferring some weight to the front it might be ok?

A weight distribution hitch does so by placing a bending moment on the tow bar. Going over the max weight, then stretching it back in the other direction doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

Personally I'd be loading the van to hit 100-150kg ball weight. The suspension setup you need to carry anything more will be a royal PITA when you don't have the van in tow.

you cant store FUEL jerry cans on the rear of any vehicle/trailer... you can store water etc.

Listen to Dougal. And YES its how you pack the van. If you are serious about towing 3.5t for extened periods for an extended time frame I would look at something else...I tow 1.8tonne daily and its not fun. It killed my 300tdi and now have a 2.8tgv and its better but still a bit of a punish...Landy's are great but they arent great full time prime movers.

Serg

You have come across the very worst feature of Land Rover Defenders.

I purchased a new 1987 BY 300 TDi wagon, in 1998. At my request it was fitted with a Hayman Reese "Heavy Duty" Hitch Receiver pre-delivery.

For years, I have towed a 24' Golf caravan (at about 2.25 tonnes ATM) with this Defender. I suppose I have towed it the best part of 80,000 km, possibly more. No vehicle problems whatsoever apart from the usual first few years of build problems and normal wear and tear.

Well adjusted electric brakes removed any problems with braking. It probably stops almost as well as the Defender alone, provided there is some weight in the van. If it is empty, the caravan brakes tend to lock up early thus reducing braking efficiency, but heavy, there is no lock up.

There is no doubt that you are towing a caravan when it is hooked on. And it does get a slight wobble when being overtaken by a large B-Double, but I have never driven any trailer, of any type, that does not.

I do use a Hayman Reese 750 lb WDS, but I have never had the need to tighten up the chains as the rear springs of the Land Rover never lower by more than about 20 mm when the van is coupled. The van has a draw bar download of about 220 kg. The main purpose of my using the WDS is that on very rough bitumen, it can have the effect of minimising porpoising.

Cornering is just plain stable.

As for towing speeds, I have found that at about 2,400 rpm in 5th gear, there seems to be a "sweet spot". As I recall, that is about 95 kph indicated. or about 90 actual kph. Speeds of up to about 115 indicated are easily attainable for overtaking on flat roads. I normally drive at about 85 true, mainly to allow easy overtaking by other vehicles, and because it is more relaxing.

In short, driven sensibly, towing my van is an almost transparent event.

Now; having said all of that, only recently, I have found that I do have a real problem. The Land Rover Defender, despite my tow bar being certified for 4,000 kg towing weight (that was before the legal 3,500 kg limit was imposed nationally), is absolutely NOT SUITABLE FOR TOWING even normal sized trailers or caravans.

The reason for that conclusion is that my Owner's Handbook states clearly that the maximum draw bar download must not exceed 75 kg! The weight of a few good mountain bikes! Now somewhere along the way, Hayman Reese must have heard a rumour, or had a sudden rush of blood to the head, because the towbar, (remember it was fitted from new in 1998) states a maximum download of 120 kg. And that is the equivalent of the download permitted for a TOYOTA CAMRY sedan.

Attempts to have the towbar re-certified by Hayman Reese obtain a written response from them that the maximum permissible down load for a Land Rover Defender is 150 kg - yet another figure apparently unsubstantiated by available data.

So there you have it. Although the Defender is certified for towing up to 4,000 kg, in practice, it is limited to very small trailers or caravans because of the limitation on draw bar down weight.

Now in case you are thinking that this is not a problem, think road side Transport Department checks. Or worse, think about the insurance company after the accident telling you that your claim is declined because of an over weight condition. Still worse, think about the liability for damage to others, or to other's property, as a result of an illegal over weight condition.

Of course, that mountain of a vehicle, the Land Cruiser (with its maximum payload of about 600 kg - unlilke the Defender's 1,070 kg, and its flimsy, thin metal imitation of a chassis, unlike the Defender's heavy box section chassis), is the obvious choice for towing. It is certified for a 350 kg draw bar download weight.

I guess that makes the Land Cruiser the tougher vehicle after all ???? Actually, it makes Toyota specifications far more practical, and probably a vehicle just as safe towing as the Defender.

An engineering certificate to remedy would be cheaper than a LandCrusher...

Regards
Max P

Originally Posted by Spinner912

[snip]

Of course, that mountain of a vehicle, the Land Cruiser (with its maximum payload of about 600 kg - unlilke the Defender's 1,070 kg, and its flimsy, thin metal imitation of a chassis, unlike the Defender's heavy box section chassis), is the obvious choice for towing. It is certified for a 350 kg draw bar download weight.

I guess that makes the Land Cruiser the tougher vehicle after all ???? Actually, it makes Toyota specifications far more practical, and probably a vehicle just as safe towing as the Defender.

This is an anomaly that was picked up by motoring organisations, 4WD and caravan mags a few years back.

All the manufacturers suffered from it !

The draw bar download weight is supposed to be 10% of the total load which made a mockery of the 'advertised' and 'legal' towing weights as all the big tough 4WDs only had 75-150kg maximum towball weights.

Nissan, Toyota, Mitsubishi and Land Rover were all guilty of this but at least the Japanese manufacturers eventually re-rated their tow bar downloads.
Hell, for years Nissan's towing capacity on the Patrol ute was only 2500kg, the Navara could tow more, and the tow ball download was only 150kg, so in reality you could only tow 1500kg.

The 2010 defender brochures state the 150kg max trailer nose weight. If you need an official source, that's almost enough.

But I don't see how a 150kg static nose weight limits the weight of trailers you can tow. It does limit the loading of the trailers you can tow but not their total size or weight. Landcruisers drag their tails with a lot less than 350kg on the towball, you'd have to re-spring and re-shock a landcruiser all around to make it behave with that weight and then without that 350kg it would be worse again.

For the record my genuine LR tow bar is rated (as labelled) to tow 3500kg with a maximum tow ball down load of 250kg.

The Owners manual says this about nose weight:

• If the vehicle is loaded to maximum Gross
  Vehicle Weight (GVW) the nose weight is
  limited to 150 kg (330 lbs).
• If it is necessary to increase the nose
  weight, up to a maximum of 250 kg (550
  lbs) the vehicle load should be reduced
  accordingly. This ensures that the GVW,
  and maximum rear axle load are not
  exceeded.

Originally Posted by one_iota

For the record my genuine LR tow bar is rated (as labelled) to tow 3500kg with a maximum tow ball down load of 250kg.

The Owners manual says this about nose weight:

Excellent find. Any chance you can scan the offending page so the rest of us can keep it for reference?