Thread: Cranked trailing arms ... articulation?

Originally Posted by Tikirocker

LSD - Thanks for the offer of quotes mate, PM me if you like but I got a quote from somebody else and then checked for myself the U.K prices and I'd be cheaper to import them myself by about 1/3rd. I'd still be interested to hear your best price.

Simon.

No problems, Simon. I'll pm through our listing and a postage guide in a few minutes. I'd really appreciate feedback if you feel we're insanely expensive - we aim to be as competitive as possible

Sarah

I've emailed that through for you

Serge & Ben,

Thanks to you both, I am not in any real way well versed in much of this stuff so I am learning as we talk about it - I don't mean to frustrate with my questions. I am not in complete understanding of the many relationships between the suspension components as yet and how they react in relation to one another, so your advice and guidance is very much appreciated.

You may help me further ... what I am wanting to achieve is more flex, articulation within the set up I have now. I know some years ago, Ben, you did wonders with a leaf spring vehicle and got fantastic articulation so I am always keen to hear what you have to say about improving my County.

I need new shocks all round ... I'll be getting new coils also. With a 2" lift I was thinking of going with the Suspension Stuff flexy coils to suit a 2" ride and get a longer shock from them in their name brand which I believe is made by Lovells. If I do all this ...

# - Do I require extending the brake lines?

# - Should I bother fitting cranked arms?

# - Do I need to alter the shock mounts at all?

# - Do I need to alter bump stops?

# - How can I improve flex at the front without going into silly money and re-engineering?

I am looking at running retained also ... I want good flex off road but not at the expense of on road stability. Your thoughts welcome. The picture below was last weekend, my truck set up as it is now ... this is the limit of my articulation and you can see a rear wheel in the air ... subsequently I couldn't get any further through the wombat holes that day. Much of it was likely my novice driving skills ... but I want to get better downward travel and flex than you see there. In the back right now are HD King Springs from a 130 which really didn't help with such a light tray back.

Simon.

ok, ill have a crack:

Spring rates....I can not offer anything here as there are to many varriables that only you can decide on

Shocks, yes you will have to relocated the chassis end shock mount. This works in conjunction with the bumpstops, coils and tyres....what I mean is once you have fitted your new coils (and retained them), and the biggest tyres you will run you can cycle the suspension WITHOUT shocks and see if either your coils are binding up before the axle reaches the bumpstop or if the tyre is rubbing anywhere....remember to allow atleast 25mm of bumpstop compression for real world driving.

once you have done this and decided if you need to modify the bumpstops you can then look at the shocks.

measure the shock form end to end, center of each bush, when it is fully compressed. this will determine what you have to do with the mount. another way is to put a black texta mark on the inner body of the shock at full ext, half way and full compession, I use the outer body over the inner as a reference.

with this you can fit up the new shocks to the stock mount and measure the distance from the fully compressed mark to the reference point, ie the outer body of the shock. Now measure the gap between the bumpstop and axle. If the bumpstop gap is bigger than the available up tavel on the shock. You have problems. From here you can calculate how much you need to raise the tower. The stock LR Def shock mount at chassis is notoriuos for binding even in stock form.

have a look at my thread "Differnt angle on a shock mount" that may give you an idea...not the only way but just another option

Brake lines definitly get extended

Cranked arms are up to you. If you want stronger better alinged arms then yes.

Front, If you can get hold of Haultech eng. they made some bushes for the front RA that provide more flex. Other than that use fulcrum super pro at chassis end, stock oem at axle end.

Spring rates and shock set up plays a huge roll in what the truck will do...dont make the rear to compliant other wise it will do all the flex and the front wont until the rear max's out, inducing more body lean.

cheers,
Serg

Originally Posted by Tikirocker

[snip]
In the back right now are HD King Springs from a 130 which really didn't help with such a light tray back.

Simon.

Hey Simon,

I will admit to knowing only a small amount about suspension compared to many others here but this is what I am thinking about your truck for what it is worth...

Before you do anything to your truck, I suggest given it is a truck (trayback) load it up with a load (arbitrarily - 200-500kg) and see what you think. Keep increasing the weight and see what happens. It may well be that the differnet loadings on the tray may bring to light further things you need to consider in any changes. I currently sacrifice a smooth and soft ride empty so I can carry heavy loads off road safely without 'flopping'. My ride is not so hard it is bad, but it could be more car-like if I chose, but I choose to have my suspension tuned for carrying stuff off road.

A nice bit of flex going on there despite the HD springs in the back...

Cheers,

Phil

Simon, my 110 is a tourer, so runs standard height king springs in the front and an air spring conversion in the rear with laminated trailing arms.

I am not expert on mods to coillers, as on that vehicle I am more interested in stability, reliability and load carrying ability - Plus I have F+R lockers, so lots of flex is not needed.

Have a look at the threads on air springs - they allow great comfort, + good load carrying.

Sorry - have to go and catch a plane now - can give more detail later. Looks like your front end is working well but your back end is stiff. Ute suspension is always a compromise. If you want lots of travel you will either need air springs or softer coils + air bag inserts for when you want to carry loads. (or a locker )

Originally Posted by Tikirocker

Serge & Ben,

Thanks to you both, I am not in any real way well versed in much of this stuff so I am learning as we talk about it - I don't mean to frustrate with my questions. I am not in complete understanding of the many relationships between the suspension components as yet and how they react in relation to one another, so your advice and guidance is very much appreciated.

You may help me further ... what I am wanting to achieve is more flex, articulation within the set up I have now. I know some years ago, Ben, you did wonders with a leaf spring vehicle and got fantastic articulation so I am always keen to hear what you have to say about improving my County.

I need new shocks all round ... I'll be getting new coils also. With a 2" lift I was thinking of going with the Suspension Stuff flexy coils to suit a 2" ride and get a longer shock from them in their name brand which I believe is made by Lovells. If I do all this ...

# - Do I require extending the brake lines?

# - Should I bother fitting cranked arms?

# - Do I need to alter the shock mounts at all?

# - Do I need to alter bump stops?

# - How can I improve flex at the front without going into silly money and re-engineering?

I am looking at running retained also ... I want good flex off road but not at the expense of on road stability. Your thoughts welcome. The picture below was last weekend, my truck set up as it is now ... this is the limit of my articulation and you can see a rear wheel in the air ... subsequently I couldn't get any further through the wombat holes that day. Much of it was likely my novice driving skills ... but I want to get better downward travel and flex than you see there. In the back right now are HD King Springs from a 130 which really didn't help with such a light tray back.

Simon.

Simon
I think that most of your questions have been answered previously.
The advantage of the cranked rear arms is mainly to relieve the tension on the chassis bushes when sitting at rest,BUT an added upside to that is that because the bush is under less tension at rest,then it only comes to reason that the same bush should allow more downward flex before it comes to its limits of compression.That is taking into account that you have shocks that are long enough to allow that amount of down travel.The other advantage of most of the cranked arms around,is that they are much stronger than the "breadsticks" that they fit as standard.

Also,running retained springs will do nothing to add stability ON road.And you will have to either make your own mind up or join the PRO or ANTI retained crowd.I know my point of view,but don't want to create another debate over that matter.

As I have a set of 2" flexi coils fitted to my Defender,I can say that they will give you good flex and they ride nicely.Much nicer than the OME ones that were fitted to my truck when I bought it.But if you go that way,make sure that you factor in,everything that you have fitted to the vehicle,or intend fitting to the vehicle,and if you intend to carry much weight in the rear tray.As all these factors make a difference.

Also you mention a particular brand of shock.Do yourself a real favour,and DON'T buy a budget shock.There are a lot of shocks out there some are rubbish,some are ok and some are excellent value and some are expensive as all hell.
Do some research and as Serge mentioned,before you worry about buying a spring and shock package,go out and disconnect the shocks and cycle the suspension and check your compressed and extended lengths.

Wayne

with the dollar so strong with the US at the moment I would seriously look at fox or bilstein(7100 or even better 9100) in a 2.0 remote res...these are both fully rebuildable, high quality shocks. they are eye to eye so would need some modding of mounts.

the problem with bilstein and koni here are the available travel lengths you can get plus they are just as expensive if not more than fox/bilstein above.

cheers,
Serg