new noise after V8 cam install

ok, had another listen but did it with the bonnet closed to start with. made it a lot easier to pinpoint. there's a good reason i couldn't find the noise on the rocker covers, it's coming out the bottom of the motor. :wasntme: so time to get underneath with engine running.

to be precise, the noise is right at the back of the sump in the middle . not at the lowest point of the sump but where the flange/lip is and the bolts pass through on the centreline abutting the bellhousing.

plr - thanks for the input. looks like i got the wrong side of the motor!

philip - geez, i hope your motor is ok. you'd be hard pressed to find a motor as diligently looked after as yours. that really isn't fair if it is - effort must count for something surely? (as an aside, i went past a ford dealership this morning, they've got the 4x4 3.0 litre duratorq diesel ranger with lsd for $32k drive away, 5 year 200k warranty. tows 3 tonne and less than 10l/100k. didn't drive it but for what i want to do could save a lot of headaches for the next 5 years. and there will be cheaper ones coming up to eofy. apologies to the purists out there!)

so given i started on the wrong side of the motor, what's the consensus?

maybe milld at the start of this thread is right??? big end bearings???

G`day

What is the history of the 4.6

When the cam was fitted did they use a retainer ?

Was it a new short or similar or running P38 ?

Crankshaft end float or too much can be a problem with some , if your able to gently/carefully lever either the balancer on the front or flywheel/drive plate on the rear any noticeable distance there is a problem .

Could be something to do with the joining of the crank and drive , the fly/flex loose bolts cracked , etc .


Can you describe the noise , presumming it sounds different from under ?

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philip - geez, i hope your motor is ok

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I stuck some hanger wire on a doctor's stethoscope today and listened all over while it was hot idling. Specifically listened along the head next to the plugs as well as timing case, dizzy etc etc. You get almost deafened with a wire epoxied to the amplifier of a Drs stethoscope.

QUIET AS A MOUSE!

I can see this is going to drive me nuts.

I question now if it is worth working on. If the sleeve is slipping and it needs a new short block which will cost maybe 5K if I sigh DIY , is it better sense to buy a low K Terracan diesel , Cherokee diesel, or maybe D2 if there is such a thing as a low K TD5 for 20K.
I cannot afford to spend over 20K on something.

Seeing it has now 200K and the transfer and ZF may go soon. I am 61 now and cannot see myself doing engine changes in 5 years.
Signed DEPRESSED, otherwise Philip A

Phillip ... You sure it's not just a case of a lazy lifter? ... or just a slightly worn ball of the rocker?



Pibby .... All tho you describe the noise ... You don't describe when it happens from the beginning of a cold start





Does this description fit .....

I start the motor from cold in the morning ... all quiet and sweet.
It gets to running temp and then the knock noise starts to happen.
The noise is happening at half the speed of the crank revolutions and is more in line with the Cam cycle revolutions.

Hard luck Phillip! After going through this business with my P6 I understand how you feel :(

What I thought about doing with my 3500 was to replace the coolant with Chemiweld, working on the premise that if water can get behind the liners - and I am not certain that it can - then the Chemiweld might do its stuff as a leak blocker and stop them slipping. This might be a hare-brained idea but before pulling an engine to pieces a $12 bottle can't hurt.

I haven't tried it on my car because it is not running and hasn't been since I parked it in the garage after a $2800 re-build:(

Alternatively; removing the liners from the block as this chap did 100% Proof that liners are moving at 'normal' operating temps & causing the tapping! - DiscoWeb Message Boards and glueing them in with Loctite I am sure would work,

Cheers Charlie

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Phillip ... You sure it's not just a case of a lazy lifter? ... or just a slightly worn ball of the rocker?

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It could be, however all the lifters and cam are new and I checked all the rockers.
Today it is as quiet as a mouse.
Yesterday when it was making the noise, I opened the oil filler and put a screwdriver on the rocker shaft front end and there was no undue noise there, it was further down on the head. I could hear it through the screwdriver at the base of the rocker cover.
As the car was aginst the wall I couldn't go along each cylinder to see if it was louder towards the front or back.
I have a borescope and I might have a look at whether any cylinder is wet inside in the morning when the engine has been stopped all night.

Regards Philip A

plr - the 4.6 was put in new by the previous owner. done by triumph rover, it has done around 50 or 60k by now. the guy who owns the workshop and was one of the guys working on the car only works on land rovers so i don't question he knows what to do with a spanner and the little things that land rovers need. his offsider who did 95% of the work, well that's a different question. nice bloke, i gather he's got and has had a few land rovers and has worked on them himself but i couldn't be more confident and say he's a mechanic. the lackey did the grunt work and the guy who owned the workshop would do the smart bits eg dial the cam in. the sound - refer below in response to mike. couldn't tell if it was there immediately the car was started to bed the cam in as the guy who owns the workshop was revving the motor.

mike - well, at least now i am talking the right side of the motor! whether the sound is there from cold to hot - will recheck on next cold start. will keep an eye and ear out for it. with respect to revolutions, i really can't be sure. i will reappraise given your description. sometimes it's easier to start with a narrative then discount parts of it rather than start with a blank piece of paper. just came back from driving and did a further test. at idle it is there, at a very light throttle (still in neutral) it is there. it appears to go away when the revs are any higher. as soon as you back off the pedal and the revs drop back to idle, she's there again. i would still call it a hollow type of sound though with your head under the motor whilst it is running and listening on the end of a hose it is obviously metal on metal but not the higher clatter tappet type of sound, definitely a much lower note. frequency - well it is not constant. it may say occur at 1.5/2 knocks a second then have a couple of quicker bursts and then bloody hell it disappears and then comes back!

philip - these cars are getting on but i reckon you deserve to be a bit more optimistic with your motor.

It might sound a bit silly but go on youtube and type in a few different things eg, "bad lifter noise on v8" or "big end bearing failure" the noises are quite unique and you may be able to disregard some of the suggested faults, like mine :P (big ends sound quite rapid) hope it's just a crook lifter :)

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philip - these cars are getting on but i reckon you deserve to be a bit more optimistic with your motor.

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Usually when motors start making knocking noises , it is the beginning of the end, but I must say it did do it once before a few years ago and didn't recur until now.
I think I will start looking for a 4.6 with a slipped sleeve and progressively rebuild it . Anyone got one? I should have bought the one that was in markets a couple of years ago.
Regards Philip A

Phillip, I did a 4.6 like this. Got a 4.0 long with a crook liner for 1 slab. Bought a set of top hats and a set of 4.6 rods from UK, got a 4.6 crank locally, bought a set of 9.35 pistons, bearing shells and gaskets from Turners in UK.

Machining and assembly of the block, including matching bores and pistons was $1300. I had the heads skimmed and valves checked for waisting and seating at the same time.

DIY final assembly and the final cost about $2900. You'll have some of the base work already covered, heads, cam, lifters, etc, so you're well on the way. The crank and rods are the elements to chase.

I am happy with the outcome, even if it took me 7 months to complete!

Pete