Garrett GT28R on 300Tdi

**rainman** · 19th January 2012, 05:03 PM

Ok - I've asked for the specs. This is what has come back:

the part number on the turbo is 49377-05100, it's a TD04 11G. The comp wheel has a 38mm inducer and a 49mm exducer on it. The actuator will be adjustable and will run about 8psi standard.

James.

**isuzurover** · 19th January 2012, 06:15 PM

My apologies - I missed the 300tdi in the heading and thought you were fitting it to an isuzu.

The TD04-11G is about the right size for a 300Tdi. However, if they are selling it set to ~8psi, they obviously have NFI that the 300 runs ~16 psi stock.

You would want to check that it can provide enough boost at reasonable efficiency. Can they provide a map?

EDIT - looks like the maps aren't available...
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php't=179478

**Dougal** · 19th January 2012, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by isuzurover

I would ask them for more detail (A/R numbers, etc).

The TD04-11G-4/5 were mainly fitted to 2.5L diesels, including the dreaded RR VM. At first glance it seems like it will be too small. Dougal can give you a definitive answer.

Bear in mind, most turbo shops will sell you setups that boost to ~9 psi, because that is what they think the nissotas can handle when bolted to factory NA engines. They don't know that the 4BD1 is a million x stronger and was factory boosted to ~17 psi. They also probably recommend a specific turbo because they get a good price on it.

EDIT - I have no idea where this document originated from, but it lists a TD04-15G fitted to a 4BD1T, which sounds like a much better size.
http://www.stealth316.com/misc/mhi-t...ons-melett.pdf

The only MHI turbo I have seen on an Isuzu was a 4BG1T industrial. Small turbo for a hardly stressed engine that never revs past 2000.

I haven't kept up with the MHI derivatives and their sizing, but anyone selling a turbo set to 8psi has no idea about these engines. A turbo sized for 8psi can be completely out of breath when asked to deliver more.

**rainman** · 24th January 2012, 08:58 AM

Thanks again everyone for your infinite wisdom. Thanks for making me see the light when I placed my faith in the supposed "experts". I've bitten the bullet and am in discussions via email with Allisport about their kit utilising the VNT from the 2.8 TGV engine. It's actually not a whole lot more money than retail in Australia for something like the just the TD04 turbo alone. I'll have to upgrade the intercooler, but I was planning on that anyway.

Will keep posted

....

James.

**rainman** · 23rd February 2012, 12:13 PM

So, after much wailing and gnashing of teeth, I have Allisport's VNT kit and it is mostly installed. It took a fair bit of hassling to get it sent, but once it was on the way it only took six days to get here. The price - incredible to be honest. It was only a bit over $2000 including freight and duty. I didn't bother with detailed photographs of the installation because it's already been done (ref Jock the Rock's excellent thread).

I haven't quite got it running yet for two reasons:

1. I have a 3 inch exhaust system, which wasn't going to be too much of a drama for me. I was going to weld my own flanges on to marry it up, but the dump supplied pipe doesn't quite line up with my "custom" tail pipe, so it's off the exhaust shop as soon as I overcome the next problem....

2. This is yet to be confirmed (Allisport are "looking into it") but I believe that I was sent a kit for a Discovery instead of the specified Defender kit. Most of it is the same; only the air filter to compressor inlet pipes and hoses are different. Due to Allisport's previous speed of communication, I have pushed head with rectifying this myself and have a couple of silicone joins on their way, and I'll make up a section of tube to go in between. No big deal; just "another" hassle.

Anyway, if there aren't pictures it didn't happen right?

Old GT28R set up:

New bits on the bench:

New bits installed (sans intake and exhaust):

James.

**loanrangie** · 24th February 2012, 10:06 AM

They ripped you on the import duty mate, turbochargers are duty free

and even as parts (kit) diesel engine parts are also duty free.

**rainman** · 24th February 2012, 02:31 PM

Maybe that's why the total "duty" was only $66.15. Admin fees? I was expecting hundreds so I'm not caring.

I've sorted my intake woes (with absolutely no help from Allisport) and I just got back from the exhaust shop. Performance is soooooo much better and I haven't even tuned it yet.

James.

**pawl** · 29th February 2012, 10:32 PM

Hi Rainman, looking at your pics I was wondering where your pyro probe is going to go now? Will it still be pre turbo like on your old set up?

**rainman** · 1st March 2012, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by pawl

Hi Rainman, looking at your pics I was wondering where your pyro probe is going to go now? Will it still be pre turbo like on your old set up?

Unfortunately no. My probe is quite big (so the ladies tell me

) so there's physically nowhere for it to fit inside the new manifold. I've stuck it into the dump pipe and am working on a 200 degree difference, so a theoretical EGT maximum of about 500 degrees Celsius. I don't have a picture of it finished off sorry - will work on that.

James.

BDA · 25th April 2013, 12:40 PM

Yes the T25 and GT25/28 families are quite large .
They were developed to get around having to use T3 family turbos with tiny housings on them . Also T3 turbos were larger heavier and their rotating group has greater innertia .

In earlier bush and collar/plate thrust bearing form the T2/T25/T28 turbous used very similar or same bearing housings (center sections) and were mostly based on the same turbine shaft diameter . There were factory Garrett hybrids of T2 turbines and T25 compressors for some OE apps like for example Nissan 300ZX VG30 twin turbo engines .

I should start with how a Garrett turbochargers designation explains what it actually is .
Also as a heads up Garrett virtually always describes its turbos by families and they are based around which turbine the unit has ie T25/GT25/GT30 etc . It can get confusing because if you said for example I have a T25 compressor you'd mean I have a compressor out of a T25 turbine based turbo of some form .
Back to the turbos designation which is often found on the turbos ID plate rivited usually to its center section .
Say for example you have a "GT2052" it means .
GT=Garrett Technology - was the next tech step beyond "T" series turbos .
20 means the turbine series ie GT20 sized turbine and shaft .
52 means the compressors OD or major diameter - and yes sometimes called exducer diameter .
R , this tacked on the end means rolling element or ball bearing center section .

AFAIK Garretts GT2554R is their smallest ball bearing turbo but the housings sold on the aftermarket GT2554R version are not the smallest . If interesded I have details of a version of this turbo sold for a diesel Mooso which was I think about the 2.8-2.9 L engine size . Interestingly the turbine housing is a wastegated one with a triangular three bolt flange and the AR ratio is about 0.56 . The compressor housing from memory is a compact conventional looking barbed one similar to (from memory) the 52mm compressor version turbos .

The VNT turbos are interesting because they cover a wider range and minimise turbine lag especially with healthy sized turbines and housings . I think the difficulties with them are the vane control systems and preventing them from sticking/seizing up because of the number of small components and the high temp cycles turbos go through .

If people get really keen exhaust manifolds can be fabricated from steam pipe and bends and external waste gates used to control turbine speed and boost .
I am not sure if twin scroll turbine housings are made small enough to suit a 2.5-3L diesel engines but they have their advantages when used with split pulsed manifolds . By split pulsed I mean joining the primaries on a 4 cylinder 1+4 and 2+3 so the exhaust pulses alternate into the turbine housing because of the 1-3-4-2 firing order .

Ultimately if you have the coin to spend I think the easiest method is to use the HS 2.8L exhaust manifold and a turbo with a housing that bolts up . I did note in the HS 2.8 workshop manual PDF that the pov pac version uses a conventional (non VNT) turbo which I think was a GT2256 . With this turbo the 2.8 was a little down on power and torque compared to the VNT version but simpler and an upgrade path potentially for 300TDi engines . In that 2.8 form the torque peak was 1600 engine revs splitting the 1400/1800 revs of the 2.8 VNT and the std 300 TDi .
I'm not sure how transmissions go with more torque starting earlier because both add up to higher stresses in drivelines .

You would think that being designed for 2.8Ls both turbos would spin up a tad later on a 2.5L possibly introducing a tad more lag or "time to torque" so to speak .

Enough for now , cheers A .

Thread: Garrett GT28R on 300Tdi

Thread Tools

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions