Thread: LT230 Centre diff damage

Originally Posted by tebone

Hi Guys,
If you want to save heaps of money and have reliability in the centre diff I welded my lt230 centre diff rear spider gear to the carrier and got rid of the side spider gears. It turned my car to rear wheel drive but still locks into 4wd the same way. Very happy and had no problems also the car drives better especially under acceleration.
Regards Paul

hmmm, not something Id ever do. Considering the number of LT230's on the road around the world and they are one of the few parts that are reliable on a rover....

Originally Posted by uninformed

hmmm, not something Id ever do. Considering the number of LT230's on the road around the world and they are one of the few parts that are reliable on a rover....

It seems to me in this thread maybe there not so reliable. Guys are wanting to upgrade to HD cross shaft and bronze shims are wearing causing back lash and filings in the gearbox. The weak point is the lack of lube to the spider gears causing them to seize onto the shafts which they break.
I have had both set ups I know which one I'm going for especially with a bit of hp going through the drive line.

I tend to agree with Tebone.
One scenario where I find constant 4wd a PITA is when exiting a lane or driveway onto a busy road. You have a bit of left hand lock wound on,One or both front wheels are in the gutter, you see a short break in the traffic and give it some berries to accellerate into the traffic stream and all you get is massive front axle tramp with the possibility of breaking a front diff, halfshaft, CV joint, or all of the above because the centre diff,together with the front diff sends power to the wheel (left front) with the least resistance.Due to the 2:1 step up ratio of differential action multiplied by both the centre and front diffs, that spinning hopping wheel is spinning at 4 times the speed it would if all 4 wheels had equal traction.You can imagine the shockloading on that wheels drive components once the other wheels get a bit of drive.
For Australian conditions where the majority of the populace do not live in the snow belt, constant 4wd is an unnecessary complication IMO. A competent 4 wheel driver knows when to engage the front axle to improve vehicle control on loose slippery surfaces.
A decent strong diff in the bum and selective 4wd is all that is needed IMO, but LandRover steadfastly refuse to provide the former with later models
I knew a bloke many years ago who was a dead set Hoon who used to try to impress everyone by doing burnouts in his 400 cu inch Chev powered Rangey. He broke virtually everything on that vehicle untill he made a spool for the centre diff to allow selective 2wd/4wd and slapped a built 9'' diff in the bum.Very few problems after that despite him remaining a hoon.

Bill.

Now I do not want to upset anyone, but you have really hit the nail on the head with why LT230s, and LT95 diffs fail.

The damage on the thrust washers and hemispheres is usually caused by a BIG difference in speed of the front axle versus the rear. In normal non wheelspin driving this does not occur. The spiders are just sitting there or moving slowly as the car corners. Ditto with rear diffs.
I think the answer is to lock the diff on low friction surfaces, particularly sand .
I had my LT95 fixed with modified thrust washers when I first bought it, ( because of lots of trans backlash) and 8 years later I had no problems.
No wheelspin no diff problems.

Regards Philip A

Originally Posted by wagoo

I tend to agree with Tebone.
One scenario where I find constant 4wd a PITA is when exiting a lane or driveway onto a busy road. You have a bit of left hand lock wound on,One or both front wheels are in the gutter, you see a short break in the traffic and give it some berries to accellerate into the traffic stream and all you get is massive front axle tramp with the possibility of breaking a front diff, halfshaft, CV joint, or all of the above because the centre diff,together with the front diff sends power to the wheel (left front) with the least resistance.Due to the 2:1 step up ratio of differential action multiplied by both the centre and front diffs, that spinning hopping wheel is spinning at 4 times the speed it would if all 4 wheels had equal traction.You can imagine the shockloading on that wheel drive components once the other wheels get a bit of drive.
For Australian conditions where the majority of the populace do not live in the snow belt, constant 4wd is an unnecessary complication IMO. A competent 4 wheel driver knows when to engage the front axle to improve vehicle control on loose slippery surfaces.
A decent strong diff in the bum and selective 4wd is all that is needed IMO, but LandRover steadfastly refuse to provide the former with later models
I knew a bloke many years ago who was a dead set Hoon who used to try to impress everyone by doing burnouts in his 400 cu inch Chev powered Rangey. He broke virtually everything on that vehicle untill he made a spool for the centre diff to allow selective 2wd/4wd and slapped a built 9'' diff in the bum.Very few problems after that despite remaining a hoon.

Bill.

Bill I always take in what you have to say, But I have never experinced this front axle tramp in either my old 81 RRC or my current 110. The 110 I have owned since 2000 and it had a hopped up 300tdi and now a 2.8. When unladen it would be one of the lightest 110's (cut down alloy tray, no sides etc. I dont drive like miss Daisy either....for me the LR 4wd system is perfect. I can use low no difflock on jobsites which may have uneven high(ish) traction dirt tracks, this helps with my 1.8t trailer.

anyone running 2wd in a rover would want to have atleast an upgraded Sals rear!

Originally Posted by PhilipA

Now I do not want to upset anyone, but you have really hit the nail on the head with why LT230s, and LT95 diffs fail.

The damage on the thrust washers and hemispheres is usually caused by a BIG difference in speed of the front axle versus the rear. In normal non wheelspin driving this does not occur. The spiders are just sitting there or moving slowly as the car corners. Ditto with rear diffs.
I think the answer is to lock the diff on low friction surfaces, particularly sand .
I had my LT95 fixed with modified thrust washers when I first bought it, ( because of lots of trans backlash) and 8 years later I had no problems.
No wheelspin no diff problems.

Regards Philip A

Philip, do you remember the little notice plate infront of the gear lever on the old RRC? it stated not to engauge the center difflock UNTILL traction was lost! this plate and wording was changed because of exactly what you say........its common sense really.

FWIW Quaife make (and have done for years) a torque biasing centre diff for the LT230 (if you want to pony up the $$$$)

Originally Posted by uninformed

Bill I always take in what you have to say, But I have never experinced this front axle tramp in either my old 81 RRC or my current 110. The 110 I have owned since 2000 and it had a hopped up 300tdi and now a 2.8. When unladen it would be one of the lightest 110's (cut down alloy tray, no sides etc. I dont drive like miss Daisy either....for me the LR 4wd system is perfect. I can use low no difflock on jobsites which may have uneven high(ish) traction dirt tracks, this helps with my 1.8t trailer.

anyone running 2wd in a rover would want to have atleast an upgraded Sals rear!

Serg, I got caught twice in different vehicles in the exact scenario I described,in the same lane. The first time was in a Stage one V8 which I initially put down to the very poor tramp control of leaf sprung Landy front suspensions. The second time was in a RangeRover classic with all bushings, dampers etc in good condition, and that was almost as ugly, which surprised me a little, but less so when I considered that the front damper location on top of the axle does nothing to inhibit tramp and radius arm bushings that are soggy enough to allow articulation don't offer much tramp resistance either.
The big diff in the bum as I alluded to earlier is mandatory with selective 2wd/4wd conversion,a modification I would do to any constant 4wd LandRover that I intended to use as a daily driver in traffic conditions.The before and after difference in driveline backlash has to be experienced.
Bill.