My 4.6 V8 Rebuild Thread

[101RRS]

Thanks Stuee but that is the Megajolt/Squirt system I have already looked at. Cost for the ignition only Jolt is around $800 and the Injection/Ignition Squirt is up around $2000.

So looking for alternatives.

Cheers

Garry

[slug_burner]

Thanks Stuee but that is the Megajolt/Squirt system I have already looked at. Cost for the ignition only Jolt is around $800 and the Injection/Ignition Squirt is up around $2000.

So looking for alternatives.

Cheers

Garry

MegaSquirt-III EMS System with MS3X Expansion V3.57 - Assembled DIYAutoTune.com

The already built Megasquirt-3 with MS3X and as per the blurb on the MegaSquirt web site. This is both 8 ch fuel and 8 ch ignition system and on current exchange rates is $705 Oz$

This is the present top of the range ECU. It has 8 fuel and 8 logic spark outputs offering full sequential fuel and spark for hi-z injectors and logic level coil-on-plug coils (or high-current coils with suitable external ignition module.) This supports full-sequential on a V8 or semi-sequential with wasted spark on a V12. Spark and fuel are fully trim-able per channel and injector timing is mappable for optimum power (~1% gain available) Six relay or solenoid outputs for nitrous, boost, fan control, shift light, tachometer outputs etc. Switch inputs for launch, idle-up, nitrous-in etc. and additional sensor inputs for external MAP sensors or measuring pre/post intercooler etc. On-board SD-card datalogging allows fast datalogging without the need for a laptop while logging. Built-in USB-serial adapter eases connection to modern laptops.

CAN communication ability to interface with extender boards for more inputs and outputs on the more complex installs - e.g. multiple EGT, multiple widebands, speed sensors etc. Calibration to adapt to OEM temperature sensors is straightforward and numerous wideband calibrations are supported.

Initial setup is aided by test modes for the fuel and spark and by built-in tooth loggers to help diagnose incoming tach signals.

The MS3 software includes many 'race' type features, two stages of progressive nitrous, water injection, closed loop boost control etc. Vehicle speed sensing, logging of EGT (with external hardware.)

In most configurations, the MS3 + MS3X +V357 can be used by setting a few configuration jumpers inside the box. It requires little or no DIY effort inside. (Other Megasquirt options are far more DIY intensive.)

You will probably need something like a toothed wheel to detect the position of the crankshaft in order to get the timing right. I didn't read all the information available but there is plenty out there. It sounds to me like you may need a driver for the ignition coils as the the MS only provides logic levels. I don't know but suspect that the coil drivers can be obtained from places like Jaycar. The diy auto tune crowd do an ignition coil driver as well and it is about $70. a trigger wheel and a hall effect sensor I think you will find they can get you everything you need and $2000 sounds like it is way more than what you should get a system for, I'd be surprised if a trip down to the wreckers for bits and the MS bits already built up from DIY Auto Tune could not have you going for around a $1k and you can do without a dizzy and get to keep your camshaft.

There are plenty of people around the place that can help you along, just need to scope the costs to see if you think it is within your budget. I'll look for a recent thread on aulro of someone doing a MS system, I am sure they can help you out with any questions.

Stirlsilver is your DIY MS and engine and body mods man he has a thread on making a disco short wheel base ute with gas and Megasquirt control. He is now in Sydney so a little closer to you now.

[101RRS]

Thanks - I have read all that but I have not found anyone using MS3 on the Thor as there are other issues that need controlling. The dedicated Rover Megasquirt people do not use MS3 for the Thor engine.

I will ask why they do not use MS3 as on paper it should do the job.

My prices are for the full kit, I assume yours is just the ECU itself with nothing else - the price you have seems even less than the Megajolt ignition only control unit.

Megasquirt for V8 engines - Complete kits

Garry

[slug_burner]

The site you are looking at is a uk site, postage might be less but the prices look higher, have a look at the DIY auto tune site I gave you a couple of links to.

I don't know if there are specific sensors or stepper motors for idle control that are specific to The Thor engine. I see that the UK site has parts that are all sorted for specific engines like the Thor. I think that all the bits they have are time savers such as the brackets to hold the toothed wheel sensor. With some time I think you could fold up some sheet metal and drill the necessary holes to mount the necessary hardware. The people at the site I linked to should be able to tell you what you need for your motor and what the total cost will be. I don't know if your motor has a manifold/plenum with injectors, if you do, you might need something that I did not mention before an interface/driver to the injectors. If you don't have injectors then there will be more cost for the injectors, fuel rails and a suitable fuel pump. You can probably get all that stuff from a wrecked V8 Land Rover that uses injectors.

Lots of stuff to learn about if you want to do it all yourself, buying ready made bits will make it all go together quicker and will involve less risk. If the cost is too high then maybe you need to take the risk of making parts up to suit. Good luck, as I said before there are plenty of people out there that can help along the way but you have to feel confident that you want to stick it out and go the distance. If you do I am sure you will be happy with your effort and the result.

[Davo]

I'd be right into Megasquirt but it's too expensive for me right now, and I'm not convinced that the bits you can buy are able to survive corrugations, which the British generally aren't too familiar with. The other thing that really put me off was the sentence that began: "Now, connect your laptop . . . " What? I'm supposed to depend on one of those things that freezes for no reason and needs an expert to fix? So I've stuck with carbies, for now.

Someone on here posted something about using Ford OBDII parts, I think. Somehow they got them to work on their Rover V8.

[pibby]

hey gary,

here's my experience with this stuff. i put megasquirt on a few years ago but only spark.

had a disco with 4.6 in it. did what philipA did with oxygen sensors so that was fuelling looked after.

soldered up kit myself, never done any soldering before but had a mate show me what to look for. quite straightforward.

then it came to all the decisions to make ie what to solder where in the ECU and what sort of TPS have you got or what type of dizzy (hall effect etc) or what type of idle air valve or whatever it was called.

used a trigger wheel and could drive around playing with my spark curve. you could really notice the difference, in a good way when you had it set right. (or pay $ for a dyno - which defeated the purpose for me).

the car had injected LPG and i could flick it between LPG and petrol and have the megasquirt flick between my LPG map and petrol map. quite chuffed at that.

even went and put on EDIS with coil packs and wasted spark.

what did i learn out of the process?

hell of a lot of admiration for the guys who do this stuff with cars for a living (electronics engineers etc) and for the guys who wrote the code for megasquirt. learnt how little i know about this stuff too.

could i get my car to go better? for sure.

if i had a new engine would i do it? nup, too much to go wrong during initial startup.

would i retrofit it later? yeah if i wanted to play and had time up my sleeve. if i just wanted to turn the key and drive (which is probably where i am getting these days). if something plays up down the track you're really on your own trying to find out what's causing it with this stuff (by which i mean you can't drive into your local independent landy mechanic and have them fix it). and i know what my mind works like, i would always be thinking about it how to tweak it here and there and it can detract from some of the enjoyment of why you actually have that type of car and do the type of things you do with it. now i'd probably stick to factory stuff or only venture as far as using factory stuff and mixing and matching.

is this helpful to you? don't know, but it was my experience!

brett.

[slug_burner]

Gary,

What Brett says is what I mean by are you prepared to go the distance. If you want something simple that anyone with a greasy rag hanging out of their back pocket can deal with then sell your cam, get a mechanical dizzy and a carburettor and job is done, just make sure it is all emissions compliant, I think LPG only will probably see you through the emissions issue.

I had a chat with one of my work friends who runs a race car on a MS, he thinks you can get away with an earlier MS at less cost. If you want to go down this route then we can talk more. I can't over emphasise what Brett has said, if you don't want the hassle of having to fix things yourself then go basic so anyone can fix it or stick to LR stuff.

You can pm me if you want more.

[101RRS]

Thanks guys - I appreciate all you have said and as you have highlighted I have a range of options.

Despite advice I had been given on a Uk forum, I have not found anyone who has actually put MS on a Thor engine - I have posted in Aust, the US, and the UK and on dedicated MS sites - no has actually done it and I am the type who is not really willing to experiment - want to find someone who has done it and copy.

There seems to be something in the Thor system that makes unmodified versions of MS not work and hence the Brits are busily modifying MS1 to work but it does not work as originally built. It is completely different to the previous Gems (this seems to be quite rare) and 4CUX systems which MS runs really well.

I need to find someone who has done a Thor and pick their brains.

Those US sites linked are certainly cheaper than the UK so for now if nothing comes along shortly re the Thor, I will get a cheap Megajolt or a basic Megasqurt and just run the ignition with carbs - or if I get the basic MS put on the 4CUX injection I have - then when they sort the Thor MS in the US in the future put the Thor on later.

I appreciate all the information you have provided - it is great.

Thanks

Garry

[Davo]

I considered only Megajolt but it's just too expensive for me. However, for you it would remove the worst part of whole engine - the ignition system - while you could still keep the simple carbies for the time being.

[chazza]

I have fitted Megajolt to a 4 cylinder petrol engine (not unlike a Series) and if it helps to assuage anyone, it is a very straight-forward and relatively simple exercise to fit; especially if the engine is out of the car.

The improvement to the performance of the car is astonishing and fortunately for Rover owners, the hardest bit of programming the advance table, has already been done by countless people and so it is easy to obtain a copy from them.

I have also purchased a Megasquirt for my Disco but not yet fitted it but it is essentially the same skills;
1. The ability to read instructions and manuals and comprehend how the system works.
2. Basic metalwork skills to fabricate brackets if desired and to solder electrical connections.
3. A logical mind, which can test and isolate parts of a circuit to confirm functionality.
4. An ability to understand electricity - something I am teaching myself with a u-beaut book.

If you can do these things, no one need worry about the system breaking down and being unrepairable. There is very little that can go wrong anyway! The most expensive component is the MJ, or MS ECU, the rest of the components can be salvaged off car wrecks. One chap in New Zealand, has installed MS on his RR Classic using Hyundai and some other Jap electronic parts.

MJ is fantastic and eliminates the advance timing losses associated with a distributor forever. MS is supposedly even better and eliminates the inefficiencies of a carburettor forever with heaps of other benefits,

Cheers Charlie