Land Rover Diffs

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

There are plenty of times when you need to reverse up a hill offroad, which can put the full load on the front diff.

Depends on your use - I have done this, but not often. And even then, in most cases there will still be less weight on the front wheels than on the back for the same vehicle climbing the same hill forwards.

Salisbury aside, Landrovers have had the smallest diameter axles, and smallest (or equal smallest) diffs in their class for many years...

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Yes - and also, I suspect, the lowest unloaded mass and GVM in their class while having the highest disposable load in their class. Partly achieved by not having unnecessarily heavy bits.

I have been driving a variety of Landrovers for over fifty years in all sorts of conditions, from mud to desert to almost impassable rocky hills. In that time I have had exactly one diff failure - in a 2a 109 rear. I have had, I think one broken half shaft, also on a 2a 109 rear. The front diff centre on my 110 was replaced by a four gear one shortly after I got it, as the centre was showing signs of wear. This was likely due to the higher weight on the front from the Isuzu, which means the front diff does more work.

Having said that, I am a bit wary of the rear diffs fitted to the 110 Defenders since they stopped fitting Salisburys.

John

Same here,I've been in the bush with mates in Patrols and cruisers that have broken diff's and CV's and have towed a Patrol with a broken diff at the Alice and another at Sydney airport,the vehicle had never been offroad but never have I broken a rover. Pat

:o So Patrols do break Diffs then !!

As far as my Landys go my diff tally is IIRC

Series Ones, never had a mechanical breakdown in either of them, 49 & 54 , both had Original engines , rover diffs front & rear , & semi floating rear axles, but the PITA SU pumps were a constant cause of bonnet up syndrome.

In my Series 2A 88 (Holden Powered) Ive broken a front diff, The casting of the carrier broke in two, and pieces came out thru the front of the housing.
a front axle, three rear axles then I fitted a Salisbury & MacNamara diff lock.

In my P76 powered /RR Gearbox / Toyota Diffed Series 2A 109 I never broke anything.

In my Series2 - 90 Hybrid with RRC diffs I broke a rear diff, pinion gears / CW&P then fitted MaxiDrives F&R.

I appreciate the metallurgy has improved over the years, but in my experience its not up to the job. The carrier I pulled from the front of my 110 has only done 150.000 klm and shows no visible sign of wear, but has bags of backlash , Before you could turn the propshaft a good 15-20 degrees, now with the truetrac its closer to 5 degrees.

I have seen Toyotas smash front diffs, mostly in a reverse up hill situation and I have seen Patrols smash CV joints, never a diff, but if you want to know about smashed Landrover diffs..................."ask the Leyland brothers!!!!!", they broke quite a few on their adventures around the country.

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Originally Posted by gazby

I have seen Toyotas smash front diffs, mostly in a reverse up hill situation and I have seen Patrols smash CV joints, never a diff, but if you want to know about smashed Landrover diffs..................."ask the Leyland brothers!!!!!", they broke quite a few on their adventures around the country.

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I encountered the Leyland Brothers as they started their crossing of the Suimpson in 1966 - they were grossly overloaded, and I predicted they would have trouble as a result. And they did. My comment is preserved for posterity in their book "Where Dead Men lie".

If the loading on that expedition was typical, I don't think it is reasonable to attribute the diff failures to the design rather than the user.

John

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Originally Posted by goingbush

:o So Patrols do break Diffs then !!

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Very rarely. The diffs are big and well designed, GQ CV's are a fuse and GU outer axles do the same despite the big CV's. Rear half shafts neck down and fuse also. I think the only person I know of to break one is Nick Mannel years ago while in a comp.I think the leaf sprung utes had a bigger diff again with 1.5" axles and I don't think you could actually break that setup on a normal 4WD even if you did abuse it - Similar to a Salisbury diff with axles that are twice as strong as Maxidrive axles.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

I encountered the Leyland Brothers as they started their crossing of the Suimpson in 1966 - they were grossly overloaded, and I predicted they would have trouble as a result. And they did. My comment is preserved for posterity in their book "Where Dead Men lie".

If the loading on that expedition was typical, I don't think it is reasonable to attribute the diff failures to the design rather than the user.

John

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I'm sure I saw an episode where they were running aircraft tyres for floatation also. Needless to say they broke a diff in that episode.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

I encountered the Leyland Brothers as they started their crossing of the Simpson in 1966 - they were grossly overloaded, and I predicted they would have trouble as a result. And they did. My comment is preserved for posterity in their book "Where Dead Men lie".

If the loading on that expedition was typical, I don't think it is reasonable to attribute the diff failures to the design rather than the user.

John

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So, John, .... You are one of the blokes in the white Diesel Landrover on page 134,
cool. & my hat off to you .


So you must have seen this lot with your own eyes then !!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...012/05/831.jpg

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Originally Posted by Slunnie

Very rarely. The diffs are big and well designed, GQ CV's are a fuse and GU outer axles do the same despite the big CV's. Rear half shafts neck down and fuse also. I think the only person I know of to break one is Nick Mannel years ago while in a comp.I think the leaf sprung utes had a bigger diff again with 1.5" axles and I don't think you could actually break that setup on a normal 4WD even if you did abuse it - Similar to a Salisbury diff with axles that are twice as strong as Maxidrive axles.

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so a OEM patrol axle is twice as stong as a MD 24spline? what is the dia of the patrol? what are they made from?

I was under the impression that the weak link in the patrol was the bearing dia's and the neck down size at the swivel.

Its all good to blame Rover diff failures on overload/weight etc. But in this day and age of requirements of a vehicle that can legally tow 3.5t, LR current axle assemblies are not what one would call a good design and adequate. Consider engine torque and gear ratios alone.....

The important thing is knowing the limitations of the diffs and axles. Goes for all equipment I guess.

I have yet to break an axle, cv or driveshaft. Mostly because I still run 29" rubber. It's a lot cheaper to break traction than break driveline parts.:)