wiring help

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

No scotch locks.

NO soldering (fine for stationary stuff) but in a vehicle the wire will fatique fracture at the end of the solder.

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Hi Dave and this one I have to disagree with you on.

There have been and always will be arguments about which is better but an article put out by the Underwriters Laboratory, for those not aware of who or what is the Underwriters Laboratory is, this an the organisation that carries out safety testing and establishes safety standards in the USA.

You will most likely have come across their logo on different devices. It’s the letters UL.

They have an article out that states soldered joints are stronger than crimped joints.

Now we are not talking about soldered joints being something like say 10 time stronger, according to their tests, a soldered joint is something like 13% stronger than a crimped joint and there are actually no real advantages of one type over the other.

I crimp most of my work because it is so much quicker but for novices, IMO if they can use a soldering iron and have the correct solder, soldering is better because if they do stuff it up, they can simply reheat the joint, separate it and start again.

Get a crimp wrong and you need more terminals to do it again, and if you don’t have enough terminals, you’re in trouble.

Furthermore, no joint fatigues if the wire/cable is secured properly, which it should be.

PS, when I was installing car alarms, many, MANY years ago, I stuffed a few scotch locks while I was learning to fit them but I would have installed at least 50,000 ( no typo ) scotch locks and sold at least 250,000 to installing companies and they were fine but, you need to know how to install them and I too would never recommend novices try to fit them.

I might also add that fatigue failures are more likely to happen to soldered joints than crimped joints. But a soldered joint that is mechanically supported by some other means than just the solder is less likely to fail, eg a couple of layers of heatshrink , cable ties etc.

For all those people that think that schotchlocks are an invention of the devil, I wonder if you know that the entire Australian copper customer access network is held together with scotchlocks, it is the ONLY method used to join cables in the telecom industry. They used to be soldered about 50 years ago before scotchlocks were invented !!

Nothing wrong with Scotch locks, particualry if fitted poorly.
They have a alowed many auto electicians to charge 3-4 hours for a simple solder job;)

Years ago on on pre-deliveries we used many for trailer plug wireng.
Every thing done to a cost:mad:

Quick and easy isn't always best.

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Originally Posted by drivesafe

Hi Dave and this one I have to disagree with you on.

There have been and always will be arguments about which is better but an article put out by the Underwriters Laboratory, for those not aware of who or what is the Underwriters Laboratory is, this an the organisation that carries out safety testing and establishes safety standards in the USA.

You will most likely have come across their logo on different devices. It’s the letters UL.

They have an article out that states soldered joints are stronger than crimped joints.

Now we are not talking about soldered joints being something like say 10 time stronger, according to their tests, a soldered joint is something like 13% stronger than a crimped joint and there are actually no real advantages of one type over the other.

I crimp most of my work because it is so much quicker but for novices, IMO if they can use a soldering iron and have the correct solder, soldering is better because if they do stuff it up, they can simply reheat the joint, separate it and start again.

Get a crimp wrong and you need more terminals to do it again, and if you don’t have enough terminals, you’re in trouble.

Furthermore, no joint fatigues if the wire/cable is secured properly, which it should be.

PS, when I was installing car alarms, many, MANY years ago, I stuffed a few scotch locks while I was learning to fit them but I would have installed at least 50,000 ( no typo ) scotch locks and sold at least 250,000 to installing companies and they were fine but, you need to know how to install them and I too would never recommend novices try to fit them.

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Which is well and good but how many solder joints have you seen that've been done to standard and have been correctly relieved, then insulated and how many have you seen that have been laid over, heated and then given a wrap of some kind of tape or has burnt heatshrink over it? (and lets not go into the correct method for reinsulating)

Na,BP connecters wrapped in tape,will match the rest of the jeep wiring;):)

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Originally Posted by goingbush

I might also add that fatigue failures are more likely to happen to soldered joints than crimped joints. But a soldered joint that is mechanically supported by some other means than just the solder is less likely to fail, eg a couple of layers of heatshrink , cable ties etc.

For all those people that think that schotchlocks are an invention of the devil, I wonder if you know that the entire Australian copper customer access network is held together with scotchlocks, it is the ONLY method used to join cables in the telecom industry. They used to be soldered about 50 years ago before scotchlocks were invented !!

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I agree with the fatigue issue but properly heatshrinked/taped and supported solder joints are what I prefer in a wet environment. I do a lot of solder-and-heatshrink joints in engine harnesses for LPG injection, anything else would bulk up the harness way too far. Crimps are good in a dry environment. Scotchlocks are OK for fast-and-dirty work but the automotive variety bear little resemblance to the telecom variety. The phone line ones are used with special parallel action pliers and are filled with silicone jelly for waterproofing and aren't exposed to vibration.

Any wire joint is only as good as its operator makes it.:)

Hi lads, I spent about 5 years in electrical/mech fitout of power boats when I first came to Australia, I've now gone back to my previous career in Offshore Marine Construction, so here is my 10p's worth...:)
Scothloks....never used them in my marine work..I don't think they are suited to wet environments and to be truthful I wouldn't use them on any install I did on a 4wd/camper etc.
My preference is a soldered joint with an adhesive lined heatshrink which is then cable tied to make it secure. I also like to use good quality crimps and in certain situations I also use the lined heatshrink over the crimp to seal the joint. One other preference is 'Duraseal' crimp joiners...these use an adhesive lined shrinkable plastic outer that seals the joint when heat is applied...

Here's a pic of the Duraseal joiners
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...012/10/516.jpg

And here's a link for them
Tyco Electronics DuraSeal Crimp Splices Heat-Shrinkable | TTI Inc.

Cheers Dave

Those things are THE business when it comes to joints you never need to undo again.

They sure are Dave....quicker than a soldered joint and also great in tight spots where attempting a soldered joint is awkward...You just need to make sure that the wires are in up to internal tab and use a proper/good pair of ratchet crimps to crimp. You can crimp both wires at the same time or each end individually...I do it individually as I like to do a tug test on each wire...does that make sense??

Dave

If you PM me your address Dave I'll post some off for you tomorrow to test out if you like??