R380 rebuild after 5th gear failure

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Originally Posted by rick130

The ATB is in the cart, just waiting to be paid for a few more jobs.....

As soon as it comes in it's going out ATM.....

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I know that feeling. Ive booked my truck in to get my gearbox installed (ran out of time to DIY) and counting on being paid by early next week :angel:

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Originally Posted by rick130

The ATB is in the cart, just waiting to be paid for a few more jobs.....

As soon as it comes in it's going out ATM.....

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TC or Diff ?

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Originally Posted by Ancient Mariner

TC or Diff ?

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TC, and hopefully without the problem your Quaife version had.

Hopefully eliminates some more backlash, not that Im expecting centre diff shims to be left by now anway.....

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Originally Posted by uninformed

I got a LT230 rebuild kit from Ashcrofts a little while ago, all Timken and a few NSK. :)

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I just checked and I bought mine in November 2010, but only fitted it mid last year.

I have emailed Dave as he has not revisited this thread. The last thing I want is the t-case failing in the middle of the canning.

Come to think of it, James - who did the caning with us last time (2010), bought D3Jon's 110 which had a new Ashcroft reco-t-case. He needed to have the front output bearing replaced after only ~5000km...

EDIT - Just noticed I posted this just after finishing the rebuild:

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

Fully rebuilt LT230T with MD goodies finally fitted...

64:1 first low is nice, but those straight cut gears sure howl in 4th and 5th low. Hopefully they will quieten down a bit when they bed in.

I used a full rebuild kit from Ashcroft. Interesting that the old front and rear output gearings had less play then those supplied in the rebuild kit!

The MD bits came with timken intermediate bearings so I used them instead.

EDIT:
Ashcroft bearings were a mix of NSK (Japan) and A&S Fersa (Spain). The bearings seemed good quality.
The output bearings were A&S Fersa... These had more play than the original (timken?) [made in UK] bearings I removed from the 28D box. There was a black gunge stuck to everything in the donor box, so I thought the bearings would be worn, however I should have kept them...

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

I just checked and I bought mine in November 2010, but only fitted it mid last year.

I have emailed Dave as he has not revisited this thread. The last thing I want is the t-case failing in the middle of the canning.

Come to think of it, James - who did the caning with us last time (2010), bought D3Jon's 110 which had a new Ashcroft reco-t-case. He needed to have the front output bearing replaced after only ~5000km...

EDIT - Just noticed I posted this just after finishing the rebuild:

[/B]

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I bought my kit Oct 2013.

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

Should I be worried that most of the bearings in your LT230 rebuild kit I just installed were A&S Fersa???

I did notice the front and rear output bearings had more play than the originals.

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No, this '6 month quote' refers to the R380 rear support bearing RJ2023, please see post 49 and read in context,

The 230 kits have Koyo input gear bearings, NSK output bearings and the other 4 are Timken,

Dave

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Originally Posted by ashtrans

No, this '6 month quote' refers to the R380 rear support bearing RJ2023, please see post 49 and read in context,

The 230 kits have Koyo input gear bearings, NSK output bearings and the other 4 are Timken,

Dave

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Thanks Dave, and thanks for the email. I did understand the bearing you were referring to, however - if one bearing from Fersa is so bad, why would others be much better - was my reasoning.

Indeed, the front output bearing I mentioned above in one of your reco t-cases that only lasted 5000 km or so would have been an A&S Fersa wouldn't it - if purchased 2009/2010?

EDIT: There must be a reason you no longer use A&S Fersa output bearings in your LT230 master rebuild kit?

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

Thanks Dave, and thanks for the email. I did understand the bearing you were referring to, however - if one bearing from Fersa is so bad, why would others be much better - was my reasoning.

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I guess some bearings operate close to their limit and can fail, some are over speced and don't fail

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

Indeed, the front output bearing I mentioned above in one of your reco t-cases that only lasted 5000 km or so would have been an A&S Fersa wouldn't it - if purchased 2009/2010?

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I checked purchase invoices yesterday as I couldn't remember using the A&S 6207 flange bearing and sure enough we used A&S input gear bearings and both big diff bearing but never bought either the flange bearings or the intermediate gear bearings in A&S, flange bearings have always been NSK, intermediates were either NSK, Koyo or now Timken,

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

EDIT: There must be a reason you no longer use A&S Fersa output bearings in your LT230 master rebuild kit?

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As above, we never did. We now use less A&S in general but this is not due to them not being up to the task (apart from the 380 rear support bearings) its for 2 other reasons, the first being customer perception, if you open up your new rebuild kit you want to see a brand you recognise and the other reason being price, A&S went up a bit then we opened up accounts with Koyo and Timken direct so these prices got better, as the difference was minimal we use quite a lot of Koyo but intermediate gear brgs must be Timken.

If a Koyo or a Timken fails then 99% of the time there is a good reason for this failure, shimmed too tight, poor oil feed etc, they don't fail for no reason. Yesterday I had a customer from Portugal call whose 380 failed 2 days after his mechanic had rebuilt it with a set of Timken bearings, he wanted me to pay to rebuild it again because one of the Timken bearings I had supplied must have been defective ( in his opinion) now I try to keep an open mind but whats the most likely cause of failure ? The best bearing in the world which has undergone hundreds of quality processes or a mechanic who has never done this before making a mistake, you decide !

PS, it got worse for this customer, his mechanic rebuilt the 380 a second time and had to change the FTC4991 oil feed ring as his old one was damaged to a new superceeded genuine part which is now made in a brown fibre tufnol material rather than the earlier black carbon type material, the problem is the new one has a massive design flaw, the oil pump should pump oil into the side and then it should pressurise the mainshaft holes to feed the front bearing, the new design has been made with a groove around the outside so the incoming oil pressurises this cavity and then it just dumps it out of the big cutout at the bottom , it can't work !!!! What an error, we have already had loads of genuine rebuilt 380's back with bearing failure due to this, so now the customer has to take it apart again !! I can post up some photos if you are interested to see what I mean

Dave

Please do post photos.

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Originally Posted by ashtrans

I guess some bearings operate close to their limit and can fail, some are over speced and don't fail



I checked purchase invoices yesterday as I couldn't remember using the A&S 6207 flange bearing and sure enough we used A&S input gear bearings and both big diff bearing but never bought either the flange bearings or the intermediate gear bearings in A&S, flange bearings have always been NSK, intermediates were either NSK, Koyo or now Timken,



As above, we never did. We now use less A&S in general but this is not due to them not being up to the task (apart from the 380 rear support bearings) its for 2 other reasons, the first being customer perception, if you open up your new rebuild kit you want to see a brand you recognise and the other reason being price, A&S went up a bit then we opened up accounts with Koyo and Timken direct so these prices got better, as the difference was minimal we use quite a lot of Koyo but intermediate gear brgs must be Timken.

If a Koyo or a Timken fails then 99% of the time there is a good reason for this failure, shimmed too tight, poor oil feed etc, they don't fail for no reason. Yesterday I had a customer from Portugal call whose 380 failed 2 days after his mechanic had rebuilt it with a set of Timken bearings, he wanted me to pay to rebuild it again because one of the Timken bearings I had supplied must have been defective ( in his opinion) now I try to keep an open mind but whats the most likely cause of failure ? The best bearing in the world which has undergone hundreds of quality processes or a mechanic who has never done this before making a mistake, you decide !

PS, it got worse for this customer, his mechanic rebuilt the 380 a second time and had to change the FTC4991 oil feed ring as his old one was damaged to a new superceeded genuine part which is now made in a brown fibre tufnol material rather than the earlier black carbon type material, the problem is the new one has a massive design flaw, the oil pump should pump oil into the side and then it should pressurise the mainshaft holes to feed the front bearing, the new design has been made with a groove around the outside so the incoming oil pressurises this cavity and then it just dumps it out of the big cutout at the bottom , it can't work !!!! What an error, we have already had loads of genuine rebuilt 380's back with bearing failure due to this, so now the customer has to take it apart again !! I can post up some photos if you are interested to see what I mean

Dave

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Dave, I have just finished rebuilding my R380, with, as you know parts supplied by Ashcrofts. I got one of those new oil control rings from you, and it is brown and looked like a phenolic material??? Go to this link for my rebuild thread, on this page a good pic of the oil control ring, post# 42:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-t...rebuild-5.html

Please dont tell me its wrong and I have to strip the box!!!!

I have my truck booked in early this week to have the box fitted as Im leaving to work away towing with my 110....