Thread: New use for 300tdi injection pumps!

I have a 300tdi pump on the bench at the moment.
A quick look gives: mount flange is 3 bolt, location spigot is 68mm dia x ~8mm deep.
drive boss is 66mm dia, and projects 40mm from the mount flange.

Drive flange is on a taper shaft - no I am not taking it off there is no key - I will never get it timed again.

I can take some pics tomorrow if you like, and any particular measurements you want.

Cheers,
Terry

while what you want to do is achievable theres quite a bit more to look at first.

injector crack pressures, injector line routing,

Physically mounting the pump and setting up the wheel for the belt will be the hard bit but should be no more difficult than modding the guts of the nissan pump to suit the tdis pump.

Its a taper with a woodruff key from memory that holds the primary drive plate which then has the drive pully attached to its these bolts that give you your fine adjustment for timing the IP to the engine.

the alignment of the pump to the timing gear housing is critical if you have do drill it out as is the protrusion of the pully into the timing belt area.

In theory it could be done but I would suggest that tracking down the non exu version of the same IP will give you an easier more reliable result.

Originally Posted by rover-56

I have a 300tdi pump on the bench at the moment.
A quick look gives: mount flange is 3 bolt, location spigot is 68mm dia x ~8mm deep.
drive boss is 66mm dia, and projects 40mm from the mount flange.

Drive flange is on a taper shaft - no I am not taking it off there is no key - I will never get it timed again.

I can take some pics tomorrow if you like, and any particular measurements you want.

Cheers,
Terry

That would be excellent Terry. Could you get a photo from the shaft side as straight on as possible?
Also a measurement from the mounting face to the end of the injector line stubs (sorry brain can't get a better description right now). Also diameter of those threads.

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

while what you want to do is achievable theres quite a bit more to look at first.

injector crack pressures, injector line routing,

Physically mounting the pump and setting up the wheel for the belt will be the hard bit but should be no more difficult than modding the guts of the nissan pump to suit the tdis pump.

Its a taper with a woodruff key from memory that holds the primary drive plate which then has the drive pully attached to its these bolts that give you your fine adjustment for timing the IP to the engine.

the alignment of the pump to the timing gear housing is critical if you have do drill it out as is the protrusion of the pully into the timing belt area.

In theory it could be done but I would suggest that tracking down the non exu version of the same IP will give you an easier more reliable result.

Line routing is good, all these pumps take the lines to the same place (group of four fittings on the tail of the pump). The big question is how long the pump is and what the thread on the fittings is. Injector pressures are set by the injectors, if this ever works, we'll see how it likes it.
Boost compensator clearance on the top could be a problem.

This is the closest we can get to mechanical and electronic versions of the same pumps. VP44 has an electronic brain on top which runs two solenoids on the pump (fuel and timing). VE is the mechanical version and VP37 is an electronic version with a remote brain.

My nissan VP44's have a tapered shaft with no locating key, mine are chain driven and the chain sprocket unbolts from a collet which is locked onto the pump drive snout at an angle determined by the setup bench. This lets you remove/refit the pump without losing TDC reference.

No worries, will do.
T

the vp44 pump on the 300tdi with EDC has different firing order/ line positions to the VE version. this possible issue may arise with all other electronic pumps if swapping to a mechanical one.

jc

Originally Posted by Dougal

Injector pressures are set by the injectors, if this ever works, we'll see how it likes it.
Boost compensator clearance on the top could be a problem.

technically yes, but it wasnt the point I was making.

just to invent some numbers

lets say that the IP pushes out a maximium of 5000 PSI but your Injectors need 8000PSI to crack. you wont get injection. (ok you will but not for long because the pump will quickly give up and the timing will be out)

lets say that the IP pushes out 10000PSI but the inectors need 9000psi to crack. that will work but you wont get a good injection pattern ot of it nd you may loose the injection once the engine gets up on boost nd full load

ball parking the compression on a tdi300 is 300 psi so the injector pump has to overcome that, so with 9000 psi needed just to open the injectors you now need to supply 9300 psi to get the fuel to flow into the combustion chamber, thats before you start hitting on boost, as that comes up it gets harder to start injection. then as the combustion begins and the cylinder pressure rises the subsequent fuel injected forms larger droplets and doesnt burn as cleanly.

there are other just as entertaining things that can go wrong if you set the injector pressures too low.

The reason Im bringing this up is that generally later electronically controlled engines run higher pressures to help with the emission control and economy which is the main reason why they went to the electronics in the first place.

Originally Posted by rover-56

I have a 300tdi pump on the bench at the moment.
A quick look gives: mount flange is 3 bolt, location spigot is 68mm dia x ~8mm deep.

Mounting boss on the VP44 is 85mm diameter. Group of three mounting bolts in a triangle group at approx 2, 6 and 10 o'clock on ~90mm centre to centre measurements.

OK, here we go....
Mount spigot 68mm dia. x 7mm
3 mount holes 9mm dia. on 98mm circle.
Mount flange face to pulley flange face 39.5mm.
Injection port thread M12 x 1.5.
Mount flange to end of injection ports 220mm.
No. 1 port is bottom left in the pic.

Good luck with it.
Let me know if you want more.

Terry