Dual intercooler set up

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Originally Posted by Dougal

To get the water temp down to near ambient you need a front mounted radiator which is equal or larger than an air/air intercooler to move the same amount of heat. You also need large water lines and to pump huge volumes of water (which creates more heat).

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I agree with this somewhat and my intended solution is to put an ally radiator on a spare wheel swing away (without the spare wheel) behind the rear door of my disco with thermo controlled fans. Not saying its the best solution and I have no info to prove it will work. (Except this: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-...tercooler.html) But I can't see it being worse than what I have (D1 300tdi).

(The other benefit of this is I can fit a V8 radiator to cool my 300tdi by removing factory intercooler.)

But time and money........... Mostly time......

Cheers, Adam.

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Originally Posted by kreecha

I agree with this somewhat and my intended solution is to put an ally radiator on a spare wheel swing away (without the spare wheel) behind the rear door of my disco with thermo controlled fans. Not saying its the best solution and I have no info to prove it will work. (Except this: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-...tercooler.html) But I can't see it being worse than what I have (D1 300tdi).

(The other benefit of this is I can fit a V8 radiator to cool my 300tdi by removing factory intercooler.)

But time and money........... Mostly time......

Cheers, Adam.

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Your D1 should have similar space available to my RRC. That Cosworth RS500 intercooler has a matching radiator that nests in with it and prices are good. I'll be going to both of these when I get around to the fitment side.
But because I've got a 4BD1T in there I can't move stuff too far rearward. So I have to get a smaller A/C condensor radiator and move that forward. Then I'll end up only 25mm closer to the engine than currently.

Using the water as a head exchanger does have benefits - it works at lower speeds for longer before it heat soaks. This is a benefit when towing.

A lot of people who report poor performance with a W2A don't have a radiator that is large enough. You really can't skimp on it as it defeats the purpose of the whole thing.

A big enough ATA will be thick and large and will cause lag. I couldn't fit the engine radiator, the AC condenser and a thick enough ATA in mine, so I went W2A.

I have no lag at all and I can tow a few tonnes hard up long steep hills without heat soaking. My system is separate to the engine, can contains about 5 litres.

In high performance applications, I can see why people would prefer ATA as if you were on boost all the time a ATA will out perform a W2A (all else being equal) but in day to day driving when you are on boost / off boost the driving characteristics of a W2A are much better IMO.

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Originally Posted by flagg

A big enough ATA will be thick and large and will cause lag.

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This is the bit I really disagree with. The volume in a large air/air intercooler is a few litres max and the pressure drop is also very small.
There is nothing to cause the lag that so many beleive exists. There are also more than enough high performance applications where lag would be a complete killer yet air/air is always used.

Drag cars, WRC rally cars. These use huge air/air coolers and if they caused even 1 second of lag you can guarantee they wouldn't.

Laminova cores??
Seem to do well on a few Vic TD patrols on the comp scene

I've seen some pics somewhere on the net of a smokin fast gu twin TD WTA with rear mounted exchanger, something like a 20 lt capacity
The guy was a switched on deisel mech I think

I think Matt mcinnes?? Was the Vic guy doing very nice laminova WTA set ups

Dc

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Originally Posted by modman

Laminova cores??
Seem to do well on a few Vic TD patrols on the comp scene

I've seen some pics somewhere on the net of a smokin fast gu twin TD WTA with rear mounted exchanger, something like a 20 lt capacity
The guy was a switched on deisel mech I think

I think Matt mcinnes?? Was the Vic guy doing very nice laminova WTA set ups

Dc

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If they were so good, then what happened? HBIntercoolers appears to be no more.

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Originally Posted by Dougal

Sure. The water is your extra layer of insulation.

In an air/air exchanger you have:
Hot air/aluminium/cold air.

In an air/water exchanger you have:
Hot air/aluminium/water/aluminium/cold air.

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I think Mack trucks Corp. might disagree with you there, their Coolpower systems (air to air and air to water intercoolers) can actually deliver air into the cylinder at or below ambient air temps.

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Originally Posted by Tank

I think Mack trucks Corp. might disagree with you there, their Coolpower systems (air to air and air to water intercoolers) can actually deliver air into the cylinder at below ambient air temps.

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Not possible. Sorry.

This is the system you're talking about?: [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolpower"]Coolpower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

It can't do that.

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Originally Posted by modman

I've seen some pics somewhere on the net of a smokin fast gu twin TD WTA with rear mounted exchanger, something like a 20 lt capacity

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That's the idea I like. I want to try and build that. Yet also replace the 300tdi rad with a full width V8 rad after removing the std intercooler.

Some real-world data. My tdi skoda runs up to 22psi boost and has a factory front-mount air/air intercooler sandwiched between the AC condensor and the engine radiator.

There is a pressure/temp sensor at the intercooler outlet which I can monitor in real time by scan-gauge.
Today (~28 deg) I couldn't get it above 39C, max boost today was ~19psi which will produce boost temps of ~135-145C.

Taking 140C and cooling it to 39C on a 28 degree day gives an intercooler effectiveness of 90%.