Gutless TD5

Hi all,

We have made a lot of Remaps for the turbotechnics VNT turbo and the power has to be there sooner. Even with stock turbo, with a remap you get some power at arround 1600, 1800 rpm.

The only problem that I experienced that was similar to yours, was Mick conversion, wich use a bigger turbo than yours and it was not setup properly in the first place :)

That said, I would really like to see the MAP readings, so you will have to turn the boost box off, so that we can have inputs and not just a default value!

Also, I know your MAF is new, but is it original Land Rover Siemens VDO?

Hi can make a super power / super fuel map to try and get that performance, but that would not be solving a problem, just passing over it!

Regards,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by justfishing

Hello,
Mine is the same I have a auto and was putting it down to that. I am thinking more of the TPS tried to get it off the other day but gave up was given better way here on the form might try tomorrow. I only get 4.9999 volts at the pedal when it reads 5 volts goes much better. Whereabouts in Perth are you ?
Ian

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The ECU can deal with a 9% discrepancy in way voltages before it throws an error. The way voltages are also normalised to 5V after the nanocom readings. I am extremely sceptical that a 0.00002% deviation will have any noticeable effect.

It's easy enough to test how accurate the TPS ways are by recording the inputs with the Nanocom while slowly running the pedal through it's full range of travel. Once you've done that use a spreadsheet or log analysis software to check the % error.

In theory way 1 + 2 should equal supply voltage so:

(((way 1 + way 2) - supply V) / supply V) * 100

gives an indication of the % deviation from ideal.

0-3% is ok, but if you see 5% error or more the TPS has seen better days.

cheers
Paul

Try cleaning the MAP sensor in the intake manifold.

I has similar symptoms to what you describe and a combination of cleaning the MAP, replacing the MAF and freeing up the turbo wategate (not sure if a VNT has one) eventually sorted it all out.

The MAP can get very gunked up if especially if you still have the EGR on.

Ian.

Unless the MAF is completely stuffed the ECU uses MAF and RPM to calculate the airmass in each cylinder, and from there the amount of fuel to be injected. The MAP is only used for this purpose if the airmass reading from MAF/RPM is very low - less than normal idle figures.

When you unplug the MAF it forces the ECU to use the MAP/IAT derived airmass figure as a substitute - no default values are used.

If the cheater boost box is not in the system it is possible to calculate the airmass figures from MAP/IAT and MAF/RPM inputs. The two calculated results should be pretty close to each other providing both the MAF and MAP/IAT are in good condition, though they tend to deviate a bit on low readings and peaks.

Blue is MAP/IAT derived value.
Red is MAF/RPM derived value.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment...maf_mapiat.jpg

The MAF is far more sensitive to minor variations in airflow, so it's preferable to have the MAF connected and operating correctly.

cheers
Paul

Thanks for that,
i removed the Boost Box this morning and tested it and logged the readings on the nanocom. I am not sure how to get it into a graph format?
Anyway, it actually drove better !!
The sat and map have been cleaned and the MAF is new seimens.
I have sent the results through to TD5Inside and hope Jose can see what may be going wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by freedriver

Thanks for that,
i removed the Boost Box this morning and tested it and logged the readings on the nanocom. I am not sure how to get it into a graph format?
Anyway, it actually drove better !!
The sat and map have been cleaned and the MAF is new seimens.
I have sent the results through to TD5Inside and hope Jose can see what may be going wrong.

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There are a few alternatives.

The graph above was done with a program called ClickPlot ( https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/clic...1161'mt=12 ) but the Nanocom logs need a bit of work before you can use them.

On PC there is Graphic Viewer CSV td5 map suite
which is similar to the old Nanocom log viewer. The downside is you are stuck with looking at graphs of the traces, and the most useful information comes from plotting parameter vs parameter.

I've recently started using MegaLogViewer

MegaLogViewer HD

It has some very useful graphing facilities and will read Nanocom logs without blinking. The big selling point for me is that it allows you to create very complex calculated fields. It's $40US to register but is streets ahead of the alternatives that run on OSX. It's Java based so runs on Windows, Linux and Mac.

cheers
Paul

Not sure if it'll help but I had the mother of all lags and no poke below 2000 in my auto td5. After checking and changing most of the stuff you have, I bit the bullet and removed and cleaned both the intercooler and inlet manifold. Instant fix! The intercooler had a significant amount of sludge in it and the manifold had stalagtites of carbon and goo.

I wrote about it in the tech section somewhere.
Here it is: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-...gosh-darn.html
It started as trans fix but I did the I/C at the same time.
Ralph

Hi Bill, I have a similar setup to you but in a Defender.
VNT, larger intercooler, remap etc, and I can tow our 1.5t camper in 4th with overdrive engaged as low as 60 km/h and around 1500rpm so you certainly have an issue.


Sound like you have covered most of the possible electrical issues.
Might be worth checking your intercooler hoses for delamination and your intake in front of the airbox for any blockage.
Also if you still have a cat in your exhaust it can foul up or worse still collapse inside.
Any of these can give you issues most noticeable in the lower revs.


Cheers,
Paul.


Out of curiosity, what happens to the wastegate modulator on Discos when you introduce a VNT?
Anybody?

My 99 D2 started having similar torque problems, couldn't remember the cause, Ralph's post reminded me. Ended up being both intercooler hoses had perished and the inside lining had sort of collasped. Had the intercooler cleaned out at the same time. Much better after that.

Thanks for the suggestions guys, i am using good quality silicon intercooler pipes, have had the cat removed too , as soon as i get a chance i will pull out the intercooler and clean it and also the inlet manifold.
Interestingly, it is driving quite a bit better since i removed the boost box !! I don't know why though, yet !