Painting Tips Required.

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Originally Posted by Dougal

Talked to the Sika helpline today, they recommend 221 as the first choice and 11FC as the second.

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Read the data sheets for each.

Same family, same colour choices, same curing method, same density, same colour choices, same cured hardness.

http://www.google.co.nz/url'sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved =0CBwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnzl.sika.com%2Fdms%2Fg etdocument.get%2F7c7dc71d-9943-301c-ab64-5e8e1be7e933%2FSikaflex%252011FC%2520-%2520PDS.pdf&ei=QkAyVPT1GYOF8QXer4GQCg&usg=AFQjCNH Ha1lRGfD75gSKg-l0c0R8rYxRFw&sig2=muzg1zFoHHIXGny17JCkLQ&bvm=bv.76 802529,d.dGc&cad=rja
[ame]http://www.smitsgroup.co.nz/images/objectimages/ie-tds-Sikaflex_227.pdf[/ame]

Don't worry dougal - I am sure it will be fine.

I have used 295, 291, 221, 11FC and the ony difference I have noticed between them is adhesion and UV stability. Any would be fine for your purposes and able to be painted with acrylic paints (once cured).

Anyway ... all the sealer stuff aside... You sound like your really enjoying hammering that into shape.... If your enjoying it ... google "shrinking disc" ... With one of these suckers and a slapper made out of a leaf spring ... I did this:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...14/10/1321.jpg

this is how bad it was before... Heaps of dents, ****loads of bog

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...14/10/1322.jpg

Given your tinkering with metal not aluminium, you can shrink/hammer it for ages and not damage the metal. They just make the slappers out of leaf springs

Bodywork slapper - The Garage Journal Board

seeya,
Shane L.

I have re-read them.

I didn't ask about rust because that is not a problem I needed help with. I specifically asked about the type of sealer to use. The response of "use seam sealer" was as much use as "tyres are usually black".

Isuzurover's reply of "Sika Polyurethane" was exactly what I needed. I then called Sika directly and discussed the best vs locally available products.

They confirmed a locally stocked product was suitable. Problem solved.


The best way is to ask specific questions to people who've done it before and get specific answers.
Trial and Error would be buying a dozen tubes of sealant. Wasting time and money.

There is no rust problem. This is to ensure if it does rust in the future that there will not be a gap for that rust to seep out.

There is no siloxane in 11FC.

I've been using it for decades with enamels in industrial paint applications.
The results are excellent.

Did I say I was using it here? Nope. Assumptions, assumptions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dougal

Assumptions, assumptions.
There is no rust problem. This is to ensure if it does rust in the future that there will not be a gap for that rust to seep out.



Completely wrong. There is siloxane in 11FC.

What you've done here is akin to reading the max lead content in flour and assumed that all flour has lead added to it.



Why wait. I've been using it for decades with enamels in industrial paint applications.
The results are excellent.

Did I say I was using it here? Nope. Assumptions, assumptions.

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Come on guys, there's interesting stuff in this thread, don't let it degenerate to a bickering "I MUST be right" thread that no-one can be bothered with.

Personally I'm be more interested in sealing the seam with *anything* that prevent aluminium -> metal contact so you don't corrode the aluminium. The aluminium roof on one of my cars has a metal edge crimped around it .... It doesn't work as the aluminium dissolves over time due to the dissimilar metals. As it dissolves it seems to stop the metal edge rusting away.

With stuff like this ... I just visit the local auto body store (in my case J&D auto paints in ballarat). And ask the guy behind the counter what to use. They sell to the trade so are very aware of what works and what doesn't. They would no doubt say "use that one there, not the other 3 ...".

Just don't use a sikaflex that's an adhesive (as you can see there's thousands of types). Trying to remove anything that's been bonded with a sikaflex type adhesive must be experienced to know the pain ...... A windscreen glued in with the stuff becomes a structural member of the car!

seeya,
Shane L.

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

Personally I'm be more interested in sealing the seam with *anything* that prevent aluminium -> metal contact so you don't corrode the aluminium. The aluminium roof on one of my cars has a metal edge crimped around it .... It doesn't work as the aluminium dissolves over time due to the dissimilar metals. As it dissolves it seems to stop the metal edge rusting away.

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Galvanic corrosion eats the metal with the least resistance. Aluminium and mild steel it eats the mild steel.
Aluminium and stainless steel it eats the aluminium.

Same way zinc acts as a sacrificial. Exposed galv works well to protect aluminium in the presence of stainless. But it must be electrically connected.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

Just don't use a sikaflex that's an adhesive (as you can see there's thousands of types). Trying to remove anything that's been bonded with a sikaflex type adhesive must be experienced to know the pain ...... A windscreen glued in with the stuff becomes a structural member of the car!

seeya,
Shane L.

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Windscreen glue is tougher again. I've used this stuff to harden up engine mounts before: http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawe...9lxtD7SSSSSS--

Read a thread ages ago about welding dissimilar metals together on boats. It was not an issue that the two metals were fused together. The main concern was that the joint zone be carefully painted to exclude moisture which otherwise facilitates galvanic reactions - and to stop people walking over the paint, dragging things over it etc to re-expose the joint.

I would postulate that if LRover simply folded aluminium around steel support frames without a neutral intermediate putty, that there would be no galvanic reaction ie doors. But the moment you wet the joins you would get reaction. This all gets exacerbated with accumulated dust from outback travels, salt from boat launching etc. I'd guess the putty when fresh is water repellent to stop moisture bridging between the two.

The KDS(?) (or whatever its called) system I'm going to use on my chassis has a rust conversion (to phosphate) step, then the primary coat infiltrates the phoshate, and sets by absorbing moisture on the chassis and in the atmosphere. It is also flexible to allow for chassis flex, and for the same reason can be used on the springs. It'll be the first time I'e used this system so I'm not going to die by the pen (keyboard) defending if others think its crap. I'll let you know.

I've been going there since I was 16years old.... Still the same poeple behind the counter ... No in-experienced people pretending they know all.

I've queried a couple of products there that I said didn't work... They go to the effort to show me what I did wrong so it failed. If you live near ballarat there worth the effort of going too. They do pretty good paint matches too.

As crazy as it sounds white isn't the easiest to match ... as there is countless shades of white (have you ever seen the colours that going into making a white paint ... :eek: ). Black and very dark are the easiest :confused:

seeya,
Shane L.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by workingonit

Read a thread ages ago about welding dissimilar metals together on boats. It was not an issue that the two metals were fused together. The main concern was that the joint zone be carefully painted to exclude moisture which otherwise facilitates galvanic reactions - and to stop people walking over the paint, dragging things over it etc to re-expose the joint.

I would postulate that if LRover simply folded aluminium around steel support frames without a neutral intermediate putty, that there would be no galvanic reaction ie doors. But the moment you wet the joins you would get reaction. This all gets exacerbated with accumulated dust from outback travels, salt from boat launching etc. I'd guess the putty when fresh is water repellent to stop moisture bridging between the two.

The KDS(?) (or whatever its called) system I'm going to use on my chassis has a rust conversion (to phosphate) step, then the primary coat infiltrates the phoshate, and sets by absorbing moisture on the chassis and in the atmosphere. It is also flexible to allow for chassis flex, and for the same reason can be used on the springs. It'll be the first time I'e used this system so I'm not going to die by the pen (keyboard) defending if others think its crap. I'll let you know.

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POR/KBS do work as advertised. The stuff sticks like **** to a blanket. But it's not the magic bullet people seem to think. Like any other coating you would need to keep an eye on it and ensure it hasn't failed. I've had great success with it in the past .... and a couple of failures. I think there is some cheap paint brushes out the that react to it and cause failures down the line (there must be some sort of synthetic substance in the bristles).

seeya,
Shane L.