Thread: ARTICULATION WITHOUT LIFT ?

Thanks for all the replies . The more I look into it the more I find .
Seems the first thing is to do is find where the limitations are , then find out how hard it is to improve .

Thanks for your input .

Originally Posted by Slunnie

A few have fitted swaybar disconnects to D2's.

Dero, its not quite that simple. I cant respond infull right now, but without fully understanding the geometry implications, the effects on other components and the ride/load compromises, i'd just take in to a suspension shop and tell them what you want. Yes, you can just drop inshocks that are 50mm longer, but there are many flow on affects from that, its not a solution without problems.

?? what are the downside of giving a couple of inches of drop?? None as far as i know

?? what are the downside of giving a couple of inches of drop?? None as far as i know

IMHO and experience , many underestimate the amount of compression that the bump stops can experience . You have to measure the shock length compared with a bump stop that is about 3/4 compressed.
That is if you ever have the need to drive at normal road speeds on dirt roads.
The other issue is springs popping out on articulation which I have also seen plenty of. This is a PITA but not as serious as breaking a shock in half.

I recall an incident on an outback trip with a RRC where the bloke had borrowed some 245.75x16 muds, and they had chopped out the front of his inner guards ( inside the rear doors). There was no way with even 3or 4 blokes standing on the rear bumper that you could get those tyres anywhere near the inner guards but the bush and bump stop compression had done it.
I personally would not put 2 inch longer shocks on unless I had moved the mounts 2 inches further apart, and retained the springs. Pretty easy on a Defender and AFAIK there are kits available from LRA to raise the top mount. Not so easy on an RRC, D1,or D2.( D2 has longer shocks anyway by moving the bottom mount down)

Regards Philip A

I don't do anything extreme in my D2 but with SLS in the back which works very well, the quickest and cheapest improvement I made was to fit a front sway bar disconnect. The front sway bar is very stiff and the disco was always lifting a front wheel. The sway bar disconnect allows way more drop on the front ... And when disconnected off-road the ride is more comfortable .... Onroad at speed it's very unstable in tight bends ... Especially downhill bends ... Ask me how I know !!!!

Sent from my iPhone using two tin cans and a length of twine

Originally Posted by 85 county

?? what are the downside of giving a couple of inches of drop?? None as far as i know

PhilipA has spoken exactly about what I was alluding to. Add to that fractured shock mounts and turrets, broken shocks depending on the design, loose/dislocated and noisy springs which then also don't comply when not held captive in the factory designed manner, possible brake/ and ABS line length issues and likewise crossmembers for some chassis. Throw airbags in and I've also seen these pulled apart.

Suspension is a geometric system that matches throughout and works together. It all can be modified alright, but its not just a bin of any old parts that work in isolation where you "just" put in 2" longer shocks for more travel, or "just" throw under long soft springs to make the ride soft. All of the parts have to match to work together as a geometric system.

What I do, and there are other techniques, is start at the springs, and then shock lengths and rates (including mounts) to suit springs, bumpstops to suit shocks and then the other peripherals such as brake lines, sway bar and other suspension links etc.

I think you guys are talking up the work involved wth fitting +2's, just a bit...

Yes, the front end won't use the travel without the sway bar removed.

If suspension height isn't changing (springs are staying the same I believe), then with +2" shocks the geometry that matters (when you are driving down the road at 110) isn't changed at all.

Brake lines could be on their limits, bump stop clearance could be brought into question, springs could dislocate potentially, but trailing arms, A-frame ball joint, radius arms, and sway bars, should all remain within their capable ranges of movement...

PhillipA, why would you extend towers 2" to fit +2's? No point fitting them as there's no travel gained! They only have a 1" longer closed length (nominally), and there's is enough room to accommodate that in the standard set up, with MOST shocks.

They're literally bolt in... (As a general rule, but should be checked case by case).

Originally Posted by MR LR

I think you guys are talking up the work involved wth fitting +2's, just a bit...

Yes, the front end won't use the travel without the sway bar removed.

If suspension height isn't changing (springs are staying the same I believe), then with +2" shocks the geometry that matters (when you are driving down the road at 110) isn't changed at all.

Brake lines could be on their limits, bump stop clearance could be brought into question, springs could dislocate potentially, but trailing arms, A-frame ball joint, radius arms, and sway bars, should all remain within their capable ranges of movement...

PhillipA, why would you extend towers 2" to fit +2's? No point fitting them as there's no travel gained! They only have a 1" longer closed length (nominally), and there's is enough room to accommodate that in the standard set up, with MOST shocks.

They're literally bolt in... (As a general rule, but should be checked case by case).

Depends if you want a bodge or not.
The front will use the travel despite the swaybars. Dynamic forces are greater than anything static, but going beyond articulation only, there suspension will experience full drop and compression, eg over those waterflow whoops on the tracks, speed humps etc.

Castor geometry is unaffected with the same springs, but thats not the geometry being talked about. Geometry is about the relationships between all of the parts as the suspension travels.

The shock tower needs to be extended or the bumpstops extended so the shock or its mounts are not damaged at full compression. Putting an impact force through anything, including shocks is just going to break them. Without these mods you compromise the mounts and the shocks. No probs if you can break it and drive home or it goes on a trailer, not so cool if you're a trip away. Likewise the open shock position should remove as much force out of the spring as possible but still retain the spring.

No bodge...

There's an easy 25mm available for the extended closed length of a shock... In my first post I alluded to this needing to be confirmed, and possibly having extended towers fitted.

Dynamic forces will definitely use all the up-travel available, down travel will also get used up occasionally, but if there's enough clearance in all componentry, that is no issue!

It's really not that difficult a mod... fit +2" shocks, fit +2" brake lines, providing they won't bottom out on compression, no further mods are needed for a proper job... If you're paranoid, extend the towers 20mm... But I know plenty that run them with no issues on standard gear. However, I also know plenty that have broken shocks because of inadequate clearance! (Longer than +2")