Thread: tdi get up and.....go?

120 is nowhere near what you should be getting.
I've never tried getting too much out of a 300Tdi but I know the 200Tdi Disco will go do around 160kph (new car, cool night - 7 red 200Tdis in a convoy ).

Are the turbo hoses OK (not weak & collapsing) ?

31" will kill the acceleration - they do on my V8 RR - but it shouldn't affect the top end that much.

My 200Tdi is capable of 140km/h easily. The high range gears have been changed though, but even before I changed it - I'd get 125 comfortably.

The tyre pressures you are quoting seem a tad low for my mind. I run at least 36psi minimum in the front. Normal pressures though for me are:
Loaded: 40psi front, 50psi rear
Normal: 40psi front and rear

Tyres are 235/85 R16 Mud Terrains.

Be aware though - that the slightest difference in wind and/or terrain can make a big difference in top speed. :wink:

Mine is a 97 300tdi auto, fiddled the injector as per several posts on "How to". Definite improvement on accelaeration but no better on top end. Even before fiddling the top speed down Mooney Mooney bridge is around 120k. I have never got it any faster, gets there quick enough, just no faster. I think it has more to do with aerodynamics than anything else. Basically we are trying to make a small square shed act like a sreamlined jet fighter, it just ain't gunna happen mate. Anyway, as law abiding Land Rover owners we would never advocate speeding under any circumstances, would we!!

I always thought Denco had a good reputation but right now I’m wondering why?
The Tdi (both 200 & 300) Bosch VE fuel pumps CAN be adjusted for performance IN the car.
Yes removing and putting them on a bench may be a more accurate way to get factory settings but your asking for more power. NOT reset pump to factory setting as landrover would do.
I'm NOT a diesel mechanic, I’m an engineer who likes to and always has tinkered with my own cars I had (just sold) a 300 Tdi disco and I adjusted my own fuel pump many times.
For more performance, Now that I’m the HS2.8 importer I can sell you a HS2.8 upgrade or at least a turbo upgrade to suit your 300 Tdi (I needed a free plug)
But if I can’t sell you one at least I’ll help you help yourself (I don’t like hearing rip off merchants saying something can’t be done when it can easily be done)

PS yes your bigger tyres will be slowing you down a lot I also had 31” mud tyres on mine and I put back on std tyres 1 day and it flew??

FYI A friend has a 200Tdi disco, he’s turned it up to waaay dangerous EGTs but it will out drag his P38 4.6 RR

Anyway here’s how to adjust your fuel pump
FIRST I would suggest you fit a EGT gauge and monitor your EGTs (try thermoguards www.thermoguard.com.au I have not used hi but he’s a landrover guy so it must be good)

I take NO responsibility if you destroy your engine (although I will gladly sell you a new 2.8 only joking Watch the EGTs and it will be fine

NOTE
This is not mine, copyright to some American guy who posted on a US site that uses the same injector pump on a dodge engine

Low manifold pressure (boost) fuel delivery adjustment.

This adjustment is fairly simple and will help considerably around town at low engine speeds and low boost conditions.
There is a small cap in the centre of the 'fuel-control device' atop the pump (the 'appendage' that is plumbed to the intake manifold and restricts the amount of fuel injected until the manifold pressure is above atmospheric). This cap can be readily removed with two small screwdrivers and a gentle rocking motion. Beneath the cap is a torx T-25 screw and a lock nut that holds it. The locknut is 13 mm and has a 'break-away torque' of around 100 in-lbs. Turn the T-25 screw 2 turns clockwise and tighten the locknut to 125 in-lbs. For additional fuel (and smoke) the screw may be turned farther (CW). Back it off (CCW) to reduce smoke. NOTE: this will increase the exhaust temperature by about 75 degrees F on long grades. Clean the plug with CRC Brake cleaner and seal it with LocTite pipe thread sealant with teflon. Externally, it will appear stock.
Full load fuel delivery rate adjustment.
This adjustment will TURN UP THE POWER and smoke. (NOTE: this will raise the EGT very quickly at full throttle):
The main adjustment is found under the AFC diaphragm that is held on with a 4-screw cover. MARK THE POSITION OF THE DIAPHRAGM, then remove the diaphragm -- there is a stamped tick mark on it, so use a magic marker or scribe to note the position of the diaphragm vs. housing. Remove the diaphragm and shaft, and note the shaft is both tapered and on an eccentric. Usually, rotating the shaft 120 degrees clockwise will cause the wear to go to the richest (smallest diameter, effectively) part of the shaft. You may want to start at 90 degrees and then go farther if that does not produce the power you want. The farther you go, the higher and faster EGT will climb. The fuel stop part rubs up and down along this shaft, and note the way to install the shaft that allows maximum travel of the fuel stop part that hits this shaft and is perpendicular to it.
Just pay attention and mark stuff so you can put it back the way it was, and you should be able to figure it out just fine. After adjusting the diaphragm eccentric, the low boost fuel rate may need to be adjusted slightly to reduce low speed smoke.
HOW IT WORKS The eccentric tapered pin that's attached to the diaphragm is the FUEL DELIVERY RATE pin. Now from above, looking down at the pump, almost to the bottom of the bore that the delivery rate pin came out of, is the bore that the trigger or action pin rides in. The linear axis or centerline of the action pin is parallel to the axis of the pump drive shaft, or the engine crank shaft. The movement of the delivery rate pin (down with increasing boost levels) allows the action pin (which by internal spring pressure is contacting it) to contact the increasingly smaller diameter. This allows the action pin to move rearward, which increases the fuel delivery rate. As a note: according to my books, and Bosch injection manual, the "stock" or base line for the diaphragm position is 12:00 as you look at the pump. In other words, the tick mark is toward the valve cover, for the normal setting. I have seen this not to be true on at least two trucks, one of which was on my own. If you look at the underside of the diaphragm, and can see where the eccentric would push the pin in deepest toward the front of the pump, that is the LEAST delivery rate setting. Consider that 12:00. I've found that rotating the diaphragm clockwise from that point to 3:00 is a good place to go. Depending on the injectors that are in, and your turbo boost, you may want to turn a little more.

Here is something that will set you straight every time when dealing with the AFC diaphragm. When you remove the cap, go ahead and put a reference mark on the rubber piece and part of the metal housing it is sitting in. Then very CAREFULLY, pull up on the rubber diaphragm and it will slide up. Look at how the shaft that the diaphragm is connected to is tapered towards the bottom. I refer to it as being cylindrical, but slightly off centre. It has a "deep side" and a "shallow side". You want to position it so that the deep side (the one that will allow the pin that rides on the shaft, to move the most) to be oriented toward the front of the engine (radiator). Mine was set just the opposite, it had the shallow side toward the engine allowing the pin to move the least. Now that everyone is thoroughly confused grab your tools and get to Work!!!!
NOTE "DON'T OVERTIGHTEN THE BANJO BOLT ON THE AIR LINE!!!!" This bolt is very thin walled. Take careful notice how loose the bolt actually is after breaking the paint loose.
While you have the diaphragm removed, here is another modification
After doing some serious testing and checking I've found a way to improve the around town power that doesn't require flooring it. Under the diaphragm there is a nylon stop. It looks like a thick washer. This stops the eccentric from travelling down too far. I noticed my fuel pin wasn't travelling all the way up the taper so I wanted to see what would happen if it did. So I shaved .090" off it. WOW!!! part throttle power went way up.

AFC Star Wheel Adjustment
Under the AFC diaphragm and spring is a star wheel adjustment which sets the spring tension on the fuel load delivery rate diaphragm. If your star wheel (under the AFC spring) is set too high, the delivery rate pin won't move downward as it should with increasing boost levels. Turning the star wheel up (counterclockwise) increases the spring pressure, and slows the delivery rate. I'd suggest turning the star wheel down (clockwise) in 1/4 turn increments until you smoke, then back off (counterclockwise) till smoke is gone to your satisfaction, or smoke on under power, a black haze, not a black soot cloud. The retaining lock spring doesn't have to be removed, the star wheel will rotate with a small screwdriver gently placed and pried between the wheel and it. Note the location of the wheel, mark it, and count any turns for reference. Remember: Star wheel down=less spring resistance=increased fuel delivery rate.
Hey Guys!!! What the heck am I turning, I see a lock nut and a stud that looks like a torx bit, is this what I am supposed to be turning??? This thing I was turning is under a gray metal cap, I didn't see any star wheel???Is the smoke screw and star wheel two different things???
Yeah! Your turnin' the wrong screw too! That's what I was doing! You must remove that whole cap there with the 4 straight head screws. Under this cap, there is the "starwheel". It looks like a gear. It clicks when you turn it. It adjusts the tension on that colourful spring under there. Turn that clockwise and always make sure to mark the original position so you can put it back if needed!
Full Power Adjustment
On the rear of the pump, partially concealed by the fuel lines, and under a plastic cap is an other adjustment screw. Remove the plastic cap, remove the metal collar tack-welded to the screw, loosen the jam-nut, and turn the power adjustment screw clockwise about 1 to 2 turns. After turning the Full Power Adjustment, you may need to re-adjust the Smoke Adjustment Screw to reduce low speed smoke, and the idle screw or throttle linkage to correct the idle speed.
--
The easiest way to remove the collar is to back the whole unit out of the pump, put it in a vise and remove it (the collar). Be careful not to turn the screw in the lock nut as you are doing this or you will lose the "known" setting of the pump. After removing the collar simply reinstall the unit and adjust accordingly.
Idle Adjustment:
Any tricks to get at the idle adjustment?
R #1: The trick that I use was a hole punch and tapped the locknut a little to loosen it up. Then a small pair of pliers to turn the screw up or down. This seemed to work the best for me without pulling everything apart. Good luck, it is frustrating.
R #2: I took a 10mm box end wrench and bent the box end portion at 90 degrees to the rest of it and put it on the lock nut with the handle coming out toward the front of the pump. Then clamped a small pair of vise grips on and that allows enough of a turn on it to loosen and tighten the nut. Adjust idle with a small screwdriver.
R #3: I took the dremel grinder to the end of the idle screw after I got so aggravated at trying to fit the dern wrench in there to adjust my idle. Oops! It worked though, and I have plenty of adjustment if I ever need to turn it back up.
R #4: A "tubing" wrench will work on the nut, but turning the screw is another matter. You might try a rubber hose slipped over the screw if it isn't too tight.
R #5: I bought the special Cummins wrench for this job and it is still a pain! Once I get the locknut loose the screw will loosen itself (reduce idle) with the engine idling! I use a small jeweler's screw driver to turn the idle UP (engine off to allow progress).
R#6: Tap the edge of the idle lock nut with a small flat chisel to break it free. Once the idle is turned down tap the nut back the other direction to lock it back down.
Additional Notes:
Found on the Land Rover Forums - A long discussion about VE pump adjustments and a link to a Land Rover VE pump adjustment page (in French) with good illustrations and photos. You can punch the French URL http://philippe.trinquet.free.fr/ into the Altivista Babelfish translator and view most of the information in English.

If you have excessive smoke after making pump adjustments:
 If your smoke is only at full throttle load - back off the full load screw.
 If your smoke is at low end thru pull-up - Back off the smoke adjust screw on the top of the diaphragm housing. If you have dramatically adjusted the "star wheel" (the cogged adjusting wheel under the diaphragm) it can have the same effect, as even very slight boost will cause it to move to "full fuel", instead of waiting for the turbo to spool up a bit. Adjust the star wheel back a bit to reduce the smoke level.
 If smoke is heavy at immediate start-up - fine adjust the smoke setscrew.
I make absolutely no claims and accept absolutely no responsibility for anything that may happen if an owner of a truck decides to make use of this information.
In order to increase the horsepower of the early trucks, one must carefully locate two adjustments, one is in the smoke-limiter and will be adjusted to allow greater fuel with low manifold pressure (initially, this is adjusted to minimize black smoke at low rpm/low manifold pressure conditions... but, we cannot build manifold pressure without fuel). You must remove the circular seal-plug from the center of the aneroid device. This reveals the first adjustment. This adjustment will markedly affect the feel of the truck's launch, making it pull from a stop more strongly. Adjust this in 1/4-turn increments until you 'like' the feel at launch and record the adjustment so you can return it to 'normal' in preparation for a smoke opacity test, if you reside in such a state.
The second adjustment is where the *real* gain comes from... There is a concealed adjustment on the 'back side' of the pump... essentially behind the fuel lines You must uncover the adjustment screw and turn it 135-degrees clockwise. You may have to reduce idle speed back to 750 rpm after this adjustment. Remember two things -- this will void any remaining warranty and that I make no claims beyond assurance I *have* performed these two adjustments on my truck over 45,000miles ago. In short, if you chose to follow my example, you are on your own in event of breakage.



Have fun with the extra power

Jase

Jase,
Be aware some may see your posts as spam or unwanted plugging.
i read your post with interest and do agree.


Back to the 1st topic
As for the Disco only getting to 120kmh..... What the...

My old 93 TDi i had would do 150kmh on the speedo.
the 94 Fender does 155 on the speedo.... on a nice downhill run...

Get a 2nd opinion...

hmmmm my "MR Automotive tweaked" 300tdi does 120kph pulling a 1 tonne+ campertrailer with ease and gets 700+klms per 70litres doing it. Without the trailer it will sit on 150kph for as long as i can stand the noise
and still return 700+klms per 70ltr..

if the best you can do is 120kph then you need to have a serious think about where you get your work done, or shout the thing some new rings .

Yep..I thought they were off the mark..saying that the car goes well and that I couldnt expect more! I'd kill for 150kph performance. Well I need a good rover/diesel mechanic. I have had poor experiences with the new Rover (ie Ford) dealer and wont go back and it seems todays diagnosis was off hand to say the least-anyway they are too far away. So who in North East Victoria is any good? I could try Brookes in Albury just over the border as I work in Wodonga-they are Rover enthusiasts but I dont know about their work on diesel engines, time to find out.

In the mean time-I'm not interested in tweaking up the injector pump to dangerous EGT's-[[and this is what Denco siad they were not willing to do-their point being that this could compromise engine longevity]]...so what am I looking for that should give me another 20kph at least??

Ideas anyone?
the following has been done recently and made no difference
fuel filter
air filter
bracing of top intercooler hose (to check if it was collapsing, it wasnt)
valve clearances
clean intercooler
clean sedimenter
add injector cleaner to fuel
regular oil changes
check/clean intercooler hoses-seem all ok


I suppose another thing to do is to try the car with standard tyres on to see just how much difference the 31s make. If anyone is coming through Wangaratta with stock tyres on...please drop me a line! I bought this car with 215/85's on it which are pretty close to 31 inches, so have never driven it with std's on.

why is my speedo registering correct with 31's on? This would mean discos would be over registering with std tyres on by about 5% I think.


I bet in the end it will be something simple.

thanks all
Lindsay

a decent injector pump tweak doesnt take the system to dangerous EGT levels, it just sets the pump to deliver the right quatities of fuel for decent power etc. the std pump settings are intended to pass polution tests and really have no bearing on acceptable engine performance.

if you play with the pump you must check it with an EGT gauge, which MR supposedly do, when i am a little more flush with funds i will be installing the thermoguard unit.

I put C.E.M. oil treatment (about $95 for a kit) thru my unit and it made a measureable difference. (done before tweak)

31" tyres would slightly affect your pulling power but should not affect top speed, only lengthen the time it takes to achieve it i would think.