Thread: Jump starting the old tractor

Originally Posted by drivesafe

I'm not going round and round in circles with you.
When trying to jump start a vehicle, your are NOT trying to charge a flat/faulty battery.
Your aim is to get a SURFACE CHARGE in that flat and or faulty battery and all lead acid batteries will take a surface charge, regardless of their state of charge or lack of any charge.
The vehicle will then be started primarily by the surface charge in the flat/faulty battery, assisted by the charge coming through the standard jumper leads.
The vehicle can then be safely started using jumper cables as thin as 8B&S ( which is the common size of elcheapo jumper leads ).
Again, there is no need to carry huge jumper leads if you know how to correctly carry out a jump start.
Furthermore, using the correct way to jump start a vehicle also protects the donor vehicle's battery.
This is also why all owners manuals state to leave the donor vehicle connect with it's motor running for a few minutes, BEFORE you attempt to start the crippled vehicle's motor.

Oh man. YOur not getting what I'm saying. When a lot of modern batteries die. There is no surface charge. They won't even light up the dash lights. If you try to charge them, the battery gets swollen and hot .... and still will not hold any voltage. Even after 12hours on my big transformer charger they will not illuminate even the dash lights. When the batteries die in this manner. The only way to start the car is big jumper leads or a new battery. I've seen this quite a few times.

20years ago ... batteries used to get tired .... and you could jump start them easily ... charge them easily but the capacity would be down. These days the modern batteries can internally short ... they just don't hold ***any*** charge. I've got one sitting the shed out of my '63 ID19 if you don't believe me. It expired as described above sitting in a car with the battery terminal off.

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

Oh man. YOur not getting what I'm saying. When a lot of modern batteries die. There is no surface charge. They won't even light up the dash lights.

DC enough, no such thing.

One of the major COMMON problems when a Calcium/Calcium battery fails is that it can go flat overnight, and will be so flat that it can not start the motor.

You can get a jump start, drive 5 minutes to an auto electricians or battery supplier and they will test it and it now shows as being OK.

New batteries are more able to hold a surface charge than older batteries.

Lots of info in this thread already.
When i want to start one of my tractors in a hurry and the battery is flat i use big jumper leads.
Use the shortest length and fattest jumper leads that are long enough to connect. 175 amp andersons may be alright in most applications , i thought that there are 350 amp Andersons available but i may be mistaken.
If you have all day to start the tractor, then charge the battery a bit first by any of the methods already mentioned.

Ian
Bittern

Originally Posted by ian4002000

Lots of info in this thread already.
When i want to start one of my tractors in a hurry and the battery is flat i use big jumper leads.
Use the shortest length and fattest jumper leads that are long enough to connect. 175 amp andersons may be alright in most applications , i thought that there are 350 amp Andersons available but i may be mistaken.
If you have all day to start the tractor, then charge the battery a bit first by any of the methods already mentioned.

Ian
Bittern

If its an old tractor, you can still buy battery chargers with "start" functionality. Its just throwing full transformer voltage at the battery no doubt. I have this one here:

12v/ 24v 500A Car Battery Charger Jump Starter ATV Boat Truck 4WD With Timer | eBay

ignore the price. He's obvioulsy out of stock. They are cheap. I'll use it on the tractor, maybe even on the old cars with no electronics. Now way in a million years would I use it on a modern car. I'm betting if I throw a voltmeter on it, there will be 20+volts at the battery without it on "start" mode. Better just to put it on fast charge for 10minutes as suggested by drivesafe for sure.

This sort of transformer charger has no "smarts" so will attempt to charge a dead flat battery (even if its internally shorted)

I was asked to TOW start a tractor (that had an off the beach cray boat on a trailer behind it, maybe 2 or a little more tonnes, say 4t in total) because of a battery or starter issue some years ago, after I'd been doing data collection on the boat all morning

I remember my POS was white then, the tractor was either MF or Case, anyway I didn't even put the POS in low range, just got hooked up with a strap and took off slowly in 1st high range and the tractor fired up after going no more than 50 feet.

I was surprised how easy it was at the time.

DL

Originally Posted by TheEntertainer

G'day all,

Got an old ford tractor, every now and again we need additional battery power to start it. To get to the battery you need to start the tractor so we are planning to pull two cables to a more accessible location. 750amp cables should do the job, my question is on the connection. How would a 175amp anderson plug go? what other options is out there?

thanks
J

Hi J, how about removing the need to have to jump start in the first place.

Why not just buy a 2w to 5w solar panel, and connect it directly to your tractor battery.

With such a small panel, the intern resistance of you battery would act as a quasi voltage regulator, so no need for a solar regulator.

This setup would be a fraction of the cost of what you are planning to do. Again, it would remove the need to jump start and ultimately would actually save you a bundle as it would keep your battery well maintained between uses, thus extending its lifespan.

Even if the tractor is stored undercover or in a shed. All you need to do is fit the solar panel in a good sunny location.

Then run a length of wire from the solar panel to the battery, where you could have a simple plug and socket to connect/disconnect the solar panel.

A little tip, make this wire run long enough so you can drape the wire over the steering wheel, to remind you it is plugged in, before you drive off.

Again, this would be a hell of a lot cheaper, simpler to install and would be far more beneficial for your battery!

Feedback,
We connected the loos wire and sure enough the glow plugs worked like a dream..... until. 5-6 running hours later my fil stalled the tracker and she did not want to start. The battery was at 10.92volt. Connected the jumper cables and connected for about 25 minutes. Checked the voltage and nothing still 10.92 and slowly dropping. Pulled the glow plug wire out from the ignition and the battery started to charge again. So it looks like the ignition switch turns the glow plugs one but never off....

Originally Posted by drivesafe

DC enough, no such thing.

Actually yes.

3 causes that I've seen after a battery autopsy. which provide a 0v condition

1. the internal support to the post fails theres no electrical connection between the external post and the battery inside.
2. an intercell link fails theres no electrical connection between 1 (or more) cells within the battery
3. the protection link fails which is just a glorified fuse but this is typically only found on high end deep cycle batteries and lithium batteries (its usually replaceable if you've got a good enough battery shop)

The second one I've first hand experience with having had custody of the vehicle from tow in to dismantling. The battery was showing practicably 0v

Ive seen cases where internal cell rupture has been caused by the plates swelling and distorting to the point of shorting with upto 4 cells compromised, effectively leaving you with a 6v battery constructed of 2 genuinely good cells and 1 effective cell of the 4 compromised cells.

Ive seen gel batteries that have had the electrolyte cooked dry leaving a 12v battery that could just about hold 4v and simply got hot if you chucked enough amps at it

ye olde school wide plated flooded lead acid batteries simply never had the capacity to deliver this kind of mayhem everything was overkill and made to last but then in the day your N70 battery was maybe 550 CCA with a 60 min RC whereas now you can get a similar N70 package to throw 850+CCA with nearly a 120min RC.(and they're cheaper when you do an adjusted comparison) Somethings got to give somewhere and in this disposable era its the rejuvenation and "twilight" time of the battery.