Fossicker
SupporterMods please let me know if this should go in a different thread...
Hi all,
The other day I was driving my Disco 1 300tdi (435k kms, owned for 15+yrs) to Uni for my graduation, and upon getting out of the car saw a lovely rainbow trail following my exact route. I thought this to be a bit odd, but as it was ****ing down with rain and I was late, dismissed it for later. Later came around and I had a look under on startup - couldn't see anything dripping, so I thought it must have been another car. Cut to two days later, I drove to work in the rain, and again, rainbow trail... End of the day comes around and I check the dipstick - no oil, like zero oil on the dipstick. I thought this may have been due to the heavy tilt angle of where I was parked, but I added my 1L of top-up oil and gingerly made my way home. Upon having a look under the beast, I saw that there's a non-zero flow of oil emanating from the drain hole at the bottom of the bell-housing, suggesting to me a failure of the rear-main oil seal. Note that the oil pressure light never once came on or even flickered (I know the light works at least since it comes on when in pre-start key position).
Now, at around the beginning of this year/end of last (roughly 10 - 20k kms ago), my old transmission (auto) finally gave up its ability to shift between 1st and 2nd, and so I popped it out and popped a new 2nd hand one back in. While I was there, I thought I'd change the rear main oil seal for good measure as its a pain in the backside to access, and my dad and I thought it was weeping a tad bit so could use an early replacement. During this process, from memory we had differing opinions on best way to install, and had some serious faff issues trying to get the dog on. Eventually we were successful but a bit confused as we thought it should be a relatively straightforward swap (based on what we watched/heard). Either way, no significant oil leaks presented themselves for a solid one or two runs of oil (changed every 10k kms).
Cut forward to the start of winter, the beast began its standard cold start up routine of not wanting to go until a few turn-overs (nothing unusual as glow plugs are a long-time dead), however I did notice the car develop a noticeably more intense in-cabin vibration when cold and idling (worse in gear when revs slightly drop at idle). I thought this was possibly just the idle screw had slightly moved over time and was now idling a tad too low, however since the taco was in its usual idling spot and I am kinda lazy, I didn't think much about and drove on. The car runs stellar when driving and the vibration mellows wayyy out when warm.
Cut forward again to the start of July, the day before I was leaving for my Euro holiday I noticed a small pool of oil beneath the car after moving out of the backyard (was doing some tinkering with windows). I thought this strange, since I've never noticed this before despite it being parked there many times for the odd jobs. When I came back again, I looked around the engine bay and saw the brake vacuum pump had considerable oil beneath it and a lovely oil pool in on the top of the diff, so I thought that it must be slowly leaking from there and said pool must have drained out when I drove up into my driveway (which is slightly inclined). I switched out the gaskets on the vacuum pump, no worries. When I was under there and poking around, I saw oil on the bell-housing, but didn't think much of it since that's seems to be common run-off point for oil that's been blow off the engine (there's a few tiny leaks here and there). I didn't notice any major pool of oil, and when it was raining in the weeks before last I certainly didn't notice the very obvious rainbow splotches.
Now I'm not saying that just because I didn't notice any these things they weren't happening, I likely was just not paying too much attention to that area as I just friggin replaced that seal.
Cut to now, I'm under the car, oil is drip drip dripping out of the drain hole and its almost certainly coming from the rear main seal. Now, as far as I know, there are only 3 things this could be and I'll list them in order of pain in the bum:
1. Crank case pressure too high (sometin is blocked)
2. Rear main seal is cooked (why now after 20k kms)
3. Crank shaft is wibbly wobbly and engine needs rebuild (which might explain the undue low-rev vibrations)
I would appreciate any input from you engine/300tdi/disco1 aficionados on what might be causing this, and any potential things I could do BEFORE I yank the engine out and rebuild the darn thing.
Many Thanks.
Wizard
SupporterI assume the seal was white plastic (teflon?) in an aluminium frame. Did you lube the seal or install dry? The seal should be installed dry, and that includes removing any oil on the shaft. Friction warms the plastic causing it to tighten further around the shaft.Originally Posted by BlueRunning
RoverLord
run a compression and leakdown test.
Ive got a work run coming up past and through sydneyish in the next 4 weeks or so. If youd like a hand drop me a DM.
Dave
"In a Landrover the other vehicle is your crumple zone."
For spelling call Rogets, for mechanicing call me.
Fozzy, 2.25D SIII Ex DCA Ute
TdiautoManual d1 (gave it to the Mupion)
Archaeoptersix 1990 6x6 dual cab(This things staying)
If you've benefited from one or more of my posts please remember, your taxes paid for my skill sets, I'm just trying to make sure you get your monies worth.
If you think you're in front on the deal, pay it forwards.
Fossicker
SupporterYes from memory it was indeed a while plastic/teflon and we installed it dry. I think my dad and I had differing opinions on whether the inner piece should pop out of the seal or not as we couldn't manage to do that. He was the one driving the ship that day and I don't remember exactly what happened cuz we were quite cooked by then after working on the auto trans for hours.
Fossicker
SupporterMate that is very generous of you. I'll investigate the process behind running a comp and a leakdown test and dm you if I need help. I know poor compression and sealing is bad but not sure how that translates to determining if the crank itself is wearing...
RoverLord
compression test and leak down test is to help with the rough running while cold and idling, if youve got a cylinder being lazy it'll usually have low compression and a leak that wont pass muster.
it also means you're pulling the glow plugs and that can show you if a cylinder is being miss fed by the soot or oily residue on the plug
Dave
"In a Landrover the other vehicle is your crumple zone."
For spelling call Rogets, for mechanicing call me.
Fozzy, 2.25D SIII Ex DCA Ute
TdiautoManual d1 (gave it to the Mupion)
Archaeoptersix 1990 6x6 dual cab(This things staying)
If you've benefited from one or more of my posts please remember, your taxes paid for my skill sets, I'm just trying to make sure you get your monies worth.
If you think you're in front on the deal, pay it forwards.
TopicToaster
SupporterAs I understand it, it's not necessarily the seal that's leaking, ie.the seal around the crank.
It's very likely to be the aluminium housing part of the seal. It's very thin along the bottom edge and can warp with even a small amount of time.
Did you use a gasket between the rear main seal and block, or did you use sealant?
Watch these two videos from Brittanica Restoration about 300tdi rear main seals.
first one will show how he uses sealant watch it carefully as he shows the slight gap between along the lower edge of the housing, ie. it's not dead straight.
Second video shows how he uses a slightly different rear main seal with two small bolt holes for the HS2.8lt engine, and drills and taps the block for fitting two small bolts to secure the bottom edge better, so that the aluminium housing doesn't warp(he does that in another video tho)
Arthur.
All these discos are giving me a heart attack!
'99 D1 300Tdi Auto ( now sold :( )
'03 D2 Td5 Auto
'03 D2a Td5 Auto
Fossicker
SupporterI'll have a look at the condition of the glowplugs when I pull them out, but I know for a fact that the tips of at least one of my injectors was extremely sooty. The copper crusher washer on injector 3 (3rd injector in from the front) had failed and oil and diesel was making its way up and out. When I replaced it the injector shaft was v oily and the tip was coated in black soot. Didn't think much of it at the time and chucked it back in with a new washer (doesn't leak now).
I also didn't think of this but my rocker cover seal is chronically leaking despite a relatively new gasket and re-application of high-temp RTV on 3 different occasions. I have a new seal ready to install but perhaps the leak is more so due to excessive top-end pressure... I've done the ole' oil cap test and it doesn't seem to be bouncing around too much but don't have a good reference for what its actually supposed to look like for a mint engine.
RoverLord
Remove and service the oil seperator for the crank cae ventilation system and check that the hose that runs round the back isnt crushed.
as has been metioned earlier the rear leak is not likely to be the seal at this short an interval but the casing of the seal. if you dont press it home evenly and carefully it will warp.
i very much doubt crank "wibble" is the cause of the issue, if it was it'd be out of bed and youd have draught holes in the block by now.
Dave
"In a Landrover the other vehicle is your crumple zone."
For spelling call Rogets, for mechanicing call me.
Fozzy, 2.25D SIII Ex DCA Ute
TdiautoManual d1 (gave it to the Mupion)
Archaeoptersix 1990 6x6 dual cab(This things staying)
If you've benefited from one or more of my posts please remember, your taxes paid for my skill sets, I'm just trying to make sure you get your monies worth.
If you think you're in front on the deal, pay it forwards.
TopicToaster
SupporterLOL! aren't they all!
I used to get that too. Make sure you always get new inserts for the three cover nuts. With new seal and new inserts, make sure both cover and head mating surfaces are clean, no old rubbery gasket residue on either side. Brake cleaner is good for that.
Only do the three cover nuts up to 10Nm too, not more. More makes the seal leak for some reason.
I could never get a socket(hence a torque wrench) onto the rear nut, so 10Nm is guesswork with a short handle spanner, it's easy to overdo it.
I reckon I've done maybe 7 or 8 tappet adjustments. if I reused the seal and fixing inserts, for sure it'd leak. New gasket and used inserts, it'd leak a bit later. all new bits, never leaked between oil changes and/or tappet adjustment.
RAVE says that the cover gasket can be reused up to 5 times. My experience is new every time if you don't want it leaking.
I think I'm currently on 20K klms since I last adjusted tappets(they're not noisy), and still not leaking. There is a misty residue build up, but that usually comes from the cyclone mating surface at the cover. I tried gooping that up with RTV type stuff and doesnt' leak any more, just the long term misty build up.
Like blknight said, also check the hoses that go too the cyclone. Hoses get hard, stupid expensive for their size, I found cheaper silicon hoses. Once hard they leak no mater how hard you tighten the clamps up.
ps. I thought that maybe the plastic cyclone may be deforming over time with heat/cold cycles ... so I got an Allisport aluminium one. Still leaked, so that was a 'waste of money' in a sense. Looks nice, but I'm not really that way inclined. I think plastic one may be fine, rubber oring is useless, a smear of rtv may be helpful there.
Arthur.
All these discos are giving me a heart attack!
'99 D1 300Tdi Auto ( now sold :( )
'03 D2 Td5 Auto
'03 D2a Td5 Auto
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