Thread: S1 Engine ID

Originally Posted by Land-lord

Hi Team!

I have a S1 109” with original engine – I think – but need to make sure..

Here are some engine numbers I see..
568750
25192439F

Can you confirm?

The second number ending in F should be a Series 2a engine number. It is easy to tell the S1 engine from the S2 engine - the S1 engine has the carburetter and exhaust on opposite sides, the S2/2a/S3 engine has the carburetter and exhaust on the same side. The first number looks like a part number not an engine number .

John

nothing in the parts book(S2/2A) under 568750

Originally Posted by Dinty

nothing in the parts book(S2/2A) under 568750

Yes, I noted that as well - but I am not sure how good the number index is - I know the word index is very incomplete! I still think it looks like a part number not an engine number, and part numbers each side of that number are 2.25 engine parts!

John

Where should IO locate the real engine # for S1 and S2a?

Your thoughts on these early S1/S2a engines?

Originally Posted by Land-lord

Where should IO locate the real engine # for S1 and S2a?

Your thoughts on these early S1/S2a engines?

Not sure about the S1 engine number location as I don't have one (haven't for forty years) or any manuals, but the S2/2a/3 2.25 engine has the number on the sloping surface of the block just in front of the exhaust manifold.

In my view the S1 engine is quite a nice engine when in good condition, but is low powered, particularly for a lwb, by modern standards. But the biggest problem will be that although you can probably still get most parts for them, you will have to do quite a bit of looking for some bits, and expect to pay a lot for some parts.

The S2a engine remained in production with only minor changes from 1958 to about 1985 in the S2/2a/3 plus early 110 and there are a lot still in daily use worldwide. Consequently parts are easy to get and cheap. (some parts specific to the Series 2 engine are getting hard to find) This engine shares major components with the diesel, and is extremely robust, and will survive major abuse and keep going. In good condition and tune, especially the higher compression version, it performs well although power is only adequate for the lwb when loaded or towing, and don't expect freeway performance form any of them. This engine is extremely good offroad, flexible and unworried by operating at steep angles.

It occurs to me that I have assumed your engine is petrol - if it is diesel the situation is different. As mentioned above, the S2/2a/3 petrol engine shares a lot of parts with the diesel. This (diesel) engine was introduced as a 2052cc version in 1957 in the S1 and continued unchanged until the introduction of the S2a when it was enlarged to 2286cc and stopped using wet sleeves, continuing in production until enlarged to 2.5 after 110 production started. These engines are lower power than the petrol and are not particularly durable as diesels go - but you have to remember that in 1957 there were almost no other small diesels fitted to motor vehicles anywhere. The 2052cc version is better avoided if possible unless you are seeking an original restoration. Not only is the power back to about 1948 petrol engine power, with the added weight of the diesel, but parts are hard to find as it was produced only for a short time and in small numbers. (And a lot of the changes with the enlarged version were necessary improvements) The 2286 version is satisfactory, but power is low by modern standards, although they can be very economical.

John

The serial number on the 1600cc Series 1 engines, is stamped on the front of the block on the exhaust manifold side, next to the exhaust valves cover. The numbers are quite small and hard to find, you might need to use emery cloth to make them legible. Not sure about the 2 litre engines, but it is probably in the same spot.
cheers Chazza
'51 80"

THanks agian - guys -

THe cabi and exhaust manifold are on the same side (passenger side).

Engine 25192439 F is what I see - curious if this may be the S2 engine?

It is on my 109" LWB and I think original.

Would I have any issues fitting a S3 gbox to this engine?

I am thinkin gof keeping this baby original - except forS3 gbox..

THoughts?

That sounds like a fairly late 2a engine. S3 gearbox bolts straight on , the major issue will be the clutch. This is mechanically operated directly by the pedal pivoted on the chassis in the S1. The S2/2a has the same mechanism but operated by a slave cylinder with the pendant pedal operating a master cylinder. Since it still has the cross shaft in the bell housing there is no problem putting an S2/2a gearbox in the S1, and I presume this is what has been done, together with the engine (The bell housing for the S1 engine is different). But the S3 has a clutch designed for hydraulic operation, and has a slave cylinder on the left. To use this box in a S1 you would have to design and make a master cylinder setup, probably using a S2/2a/3 master cylinder with a remote reservoir. Shouldn't be too big a job for someone with a bit of initiative.
John