Thread: Re-Ringing a Series Engine

Gary is it a four or a six petrol or diesel??

Originally Posted by garrycol

Hi all,

What are the pros and cons of pulling the pistons out through the sump and putting in new rings without doing a rebore or hone in a series engine? Also at the same time putting in new big end and main bearings without grinding the crank.

My sump is a bit bashed in and I need to take it off too bash it back out and as the engine does blow a little smoke I was thinking about re-ringing it while the sump was off. I intend to do a full rebuild on the engine later but just want to do a patchup for the moment.

Advice from anyone who has done this would be appreciated.

Thanks

Garry

How on earth are you going to get the pistons and rods out of the bores via the sump, for a start you won't get them past the crankshaft and if you are doing it in chassis to remove the crank you will have to remove the gearbox, even with the crank out I doubt if you pull the pistons past the main bearing castings. Pull the head off and push the pistons out the top, you can replace main bearings without removing the crank but it is very tedious. Replacing rings without a hone of the bore will make it very hard to seat the rings in for a good seal, Regards Frank.

Never done it on a landy but did it on my mates 4.1 crossflow xc falcon, you just rotate the crank till the pin is horizontal and then you can drop the piston and rod out thru the sump.

Sorry - 2 litre (later) petrol series engine.

Frank,

Thanks for information. There are many engines that you can get the pistons with connecting rods out through the sump without removing the crank. You undo the big ends and take the piston an rod out. It depends on clearances between the block and the crankshaft. It can be done but I do not know about with series engines. I share your concern about seating the rings but again I understand it is possible but it might take a while for the rings too seat but will happen using running in oil. I don't know if any of this is possible hence my posting asking advice from those who might have done it or tried it.

Cheers

Garry

Removing the head on a Series is not a very big job.
I bought a Series III engine from a farmer who had replaced it with a Holden engine at 30,000km. As they were mostly paddock kilometres, I reckoned that was about 100,000.
I fitted standard rings and big end bearings with no rebore or grind.
About 100,000 later I fitted rings, big end, thrust and main bearings with very light hone. I also removed the ridge at the top of the bore.
About 80,000 later, oil consumption was still negligible and was mainly due to valve stem seals needing replacing.
As you can probably guess, I was working on a tight budget at the time. But as the engine was still running quite well around 80-100,000km after each ring replacement, I reckon I got away with it.
As I needed to replace the valve stem seals each time and do a valve grind, I took the pistons out the top rather than try the bottom.

I dont think you will find anyone who would have wasted that much time in doing that, it would take nothing more than removing the head and cost you a head gasket to do it properly and if your going to rebuild the thing at a later date, just do the crank bearings then as if you are going to do half a reasonable job of it including measuring and making sure you have the right shells then you need the crank out anyway and that means you have to pull the box.

I would imagine trying to get a ring compressor, piston and conrod between the crank and the bore and then being able to remove the ring compressor once installed would also be a challenge.

The only things that I have heard you can re ring in chassis with the crank in without removing the head is large earth moving equipment.

Originally Posted by vnx205

Removing the head on a Series is not a very big job.
I bought a Series III engine from a farmer who had replaced it with a Holden engine at 30,000km. As they were mostly paddock kilometres, I reckoned that was about 100,000.
I fitted standard rings and big end bearings with no rebore or grind.
About 100,000 later I fitted rings, big end, thrust and main bearings with very light hone. I also removed the ridge at the top of the bore.
About 80,000 later, oil consumption was still negligible and was mainly due to valve stem seals needing replacing.
As you can probably guess, I was working on a tight budget at the time. But as the engine was still running quite well around 80-100,000km after each ring replacement, I reckon I got away with it.
As I needed to replace the valve stem seals each time and do a valve grind, I took the pistons out the top rather than try the bottom.

Did similar with ol Moby my series 2a,when I bought it home the oil rings were almost non-existent,so removed the head and sump and popped the pistons out the top and re-ringed using 40 thou oversize (I did say they were almost non-existent!!)done on an extremely tight budget and needing to get it on road and rego-ed, figured I would do a proper job down the track when needed,but it went well rite up till i sold her and is still going strong so i believe,BUT,if you are gunna do it ,do it once and do it right!

Originally Posted by loanrangie

Never done it on a landy but did it on my mates 4.1 crossflow xc falcon, you just rotate the crank till the pin is horizontal and then you can drop the piston and rod out thru the sump.

I just went outside and tried to pull a piston and rod assembly out the bottom end of a 4.1 crossflow falcon engine, BTW without the crank. It is impossible, you cannot even get a piston between the main bearing webs, it is nearly 1/2" narrower than the piston and that's with no crank, your mates 4.1 must have had rubber pistons, Regards Frank.