Thread: Disk front end for a 2a??

These pix are of a salisbury I bought off trade me for $100, It came off a series 111 truck with discs all around. This is the standard conversion over here, done with (I think) corona calipers. I didn't use them, and gave them to my brother who had the same discs on the front of his SWB 11A. With the discs all around on his truck, it had a tendancy to want to fire you off through the windscreen.








The pix were taken while I converted the salisbury to SWB 2 years ago, so I dont have any more pix or the parts anymore but it will give you an idea anyway.

I fitted the different back plates and the larger 6 cylinder 12 x 3" drums plus a booster to my 1972 SIII SWB ute. It stops as good as the Defender now. Before the fix it was like the brakes on a kid's tricycle. New drums are fairly cheap. Mine came from Brit Parts, Perth and the back plates came off a bush relic with the permission of the owner who was using it as a shed. The wheel cylinders are different on the bigger units; larger volume. In my opinion this is the absolute best modification that you can make to the early brakes.

The mob that makes Zeus Gears makes Disc front ends for Landy's

Link
http://www.yican.com.au/DBrakes/DBrakes.html

Dont know if there good or Crap.

Just know the Zeus Gears are not recommended... mind you i can get a set for nothing and i'm tempted.....

I have seen adverts in the UK land rover magazines. I also think that there was an Australian source.
Nick

Hi Stomps,
Some years ago I went through this dilemma with a series 3 which I converted to a Ford 351 with C4 auto. Went magnificently (surprised some Nissan and Toyota drivers). Anyhow, the only issue I had was with the brakes so after much deliberation I modified a RR front axle with brackets to fit leaf springs and put a county salisbury in the rear (both 3.54 ratio). Problem over. I also fitted a county master cylinder/booster assembly. I also fitted flares to mask the extra axle width as I didnt inform RTA. I figured as long as it was done properly they didnt have to know. Regards....Bearman

Standard RRC brakes are not all that flash. As I have 3 of them. 2 of them are getting Fender capipers and Disco Master cylinder. I would think well set up Six cyl or stage 1 drums will come close on stopping power.

Originally Posted by Rangier Rover

Standard RRC brakes are not all that flash. As I have 3 of them. 2 of them are getting Fender capipers and Disco Master cylinder. I would think well set up Six cyl or stage 1 drums will come close on stopping power.

It might be worth thinking about what you want from the brakes when you start talking about "stopping power", and analyse what the difference is likely to be.

The actual ability of any braking system to stop from relatively low speeds (e.g. in traffic, avoiding wildlife, kids etc) will usually depend on the grip of the tyres plus the ability of the braking system to proportion the braking on each wheel according to load. No Series braking system is going to be particularly good in either of these respects - we usually have tyres that are less than the best, as they are compromise for whatever surface we are talking about, and as a load carrying vehicle, the loading on the front and rear axles is variable, and there is no compensating mechanism in the braking system, so either braking on the rear is less than adequate when loaded (standard setup), or it will lock well before the front when empty. The standard Series brakes are as good as the tyres and proportioning for load, so no change is justified on these grounds.

However, pedal pressure for a particular braking effort is often seen as the sole criterion for "stopping power", and this can be simply reduced by fitting a booster. It also varies with the type of lining and the ratio of master cylinder area to wheel cylinder area, and the leverage of the pedal, and with drum diameter.

More important, is the problem of fade. Brake fade will reduce braking effectiveness, sometimes to zero, when prolonged braking is needed, either on long hills with heavy loads, or occasionally towards the end of a rapid stop from high speed (uncommon with a Series). This is where two other factors come into play. Firstly, heat dissipating area, which is where bigger drums come in, and secondly the loss of self servo action, which exaggerates the fade with heat buildup. All Series drum brakes have self servo action to reduce pedal pressure, in the case of swb on 50% of shoes, in the case of lwb 75%. Disc brakes have no self servo action, and there is no loss of pedal due to drum expansion with heat, so fade is rarely a problem.

Then there is the effect of water. Disc brakes throw water straight off, so water has little effect. Drum brakes retain water once it gets in, and it acts as a lubricant, greatly reducing braking.

And finally maintenance. Drum brakes need more maintenance - they need adjusting regularly, and the mechanism is more complex than disc brakes.

John

Originally Posted by JDNSW

It might be worth thinking about what you want from the brakes when you start talking about "stopping power", and analyse what the difference is likely to be.

The actual ability of any braking system to stop from relatively low speeds (e.g. in traffic, avoiding wildlife, kids etc) will usually depend on the grip of the tyres plus the ability of the braking system to proportion the braking on each wheel according to load. No Series braking system is going to be particularly good in either of these respects - we usually have tyres that are less than the best, as they are compromise for whatever surface we are talking about, and as a load carrying vehicle, the loading on the front and rear axles is variable, and there is no compensating mechanism in the braking system, so either braking on the rear is less than adequate when loaded (standard setup), or it will lock well before the front when empty. The standard Series brakes are as good as the tyres and proportioning for load, so no change is justified on these grounds.

However, pedal pressure for a particular braking effort is often seen as the sole criterion for "stopping power", and this can be simply reduced by fitting a booster. It also varies with the type of lining and the ratio of master cylinder area to wheel cylinder area, and the leverage of the pedal, and with drum diameter.

More important, is the problem of fade. Brake fade will reduce braking effectiveness, sometimes to zero, when prolonged braking is needed, either on long hills with heavy loads, or occasionally towards the end of a rapid stop from high speed (uncommon with a Series). This is where two other factors come into play. Firstly, heat dissipating area, which is where bigger drums come in, and secondly the loss of self servo action, which exaggerates the fade with heat buildup. All Series drum brakes have self servo action to reduce pedal pressure, in the case of swb on 50% of shoes, in the case of lwb 75%. Disc brakes have no self servo action, and there is no loss of pedal due to drum expansion with heat, so fade is rarely a problem.

Then there is the effect of water. Disc brakes throw water straight off, so water has little effect. Drum brakes retain water once it gets in, and it acts as a lubricant, greatly reducing braking.

And finally maintenance. Drum brakes need more maintenance - they need adjusting regularly, and the mechanism is more complex than disc brakes.

John

Thanks John, I see your point. Disk Simplicity and forgiveing. I am aware of down fall of drums. Why the Stage 1 V8 have restricters inside inlet ports from factory.
As you may have noticed I have a heap of drum braked turnouts here and they do stop well if maintained. Some have a VH44 booster.
I find the Disc set up un the Rangies only work well at speed when they heat up a bit. Not so prone to fade as drums. At low speed in city trafic they have a lot to be desired beleive me. I'm buggerd if I can get them to lock up (Not that I want them to) let alone stop when a rice burner chops in and stands on the skids. Also very hard to hold the auto in low range with a load after a failed hill climb Leading drums fall over going backwards as well I guess.

Just trying to point out standard Range Rover brakes will not save the day in this situation. Not Drums are better than disc.

Thanks for usefull info anyway.

Tony