Thread: Hydraulic Winches

Hi,I left mine as is up the front,fitted the biggest cross gear pump from maxi drive and fitted this valve to it plus a pressure relief valve set at 2900 psi.
it is a dual center valve one side shuts off both ports to the motor this stops it from turning when in nuetral and assits the winch brake in holding it still



I had to drill out the base of the winch mounts and fit 12 mm helicoils as the last time I used it it pulled the bolts and threads out that hold it to the bullbar.

The hydraulic tank I made and fitted where my muffler used to be


I also fitted a 1 bar check valve to the breather line to keep the tank pressurised did have it open but when going up steep tracks would lose some oil plus having the tank pressurised helps stop the pump from cavitating at higher RPM.

Good one Steve. The valve you fitted shows in neutral the oil going from the pump back to the tank. Did you remove the 12V solenoid of the Ox winch and mount yours on the side?
Is the new valve operated with a remote or piggybacked 12v Lead?
Be careful with the pressure set at 2900psi. That will create a lot of force and from my understanding might more than tear out the bolts.
I like your tank. It looks like a good size and gives me some ideas as where to put it.
Thankyou for the input.
David

I mounted the valve block above the rear diff and is operated with the ox hand controller also fitted a switch inside the cab where the window switches are to control it from the inside with two led's one red and one green so the other half find's it easier to work, ie red for winding in and green for winding out

Originally Posted by defenderbilby

...I have on the Defender 130 an Ox 10,000lb hydraulic on the power steering pump which is slow and probably stalls at 5,000lbs due to low pressures put out by the power steering pump. The speed is also pathetically slow due to the low flow rates...

The pic below (taken from pirate bb) shows how to modify the power steering pump from a 300Tdi to increase the flow and pressure.

This will not make the pump flow comparable to a serious pto or engine driven pump, but will improve the winch performance.

Originally Posted by defenderbilby

On the 120 Isuzu I have already the PTO unit and have brought a gear pump.
I am considering modifying the Ox-hydraulic winch. For starters removing the Solenoid spool for a manual one with bigger flow capacity.

The stock solenoid valve is a cheap and nasty unit. It is only meant for use with a power steering pump.

With a pto pump, you need to replace it. I recommend manual valves of the type used on mobile equipment.

These are available with in built relief valves, and spools that will enable good control of the flow/winch speed.

The manual valves can be lever operated in cab and can have cables for remote operation (adjacent to the winch).

You should also fit a counter balance or overcentre valve, because the winch doesn't have a mechanical brake. These are best fitted directly on the motor, but can be close to the motor if the hose is protected from damage and adequately rated for the operating pressure.

Originally Posted by defenderbilby

...The Ox has a 6:1 gear ratio in low, other hydraulic winches with probably lower operational pressures have much higher ratios, eg 37:1.
Is there anyone on the forum who can point me in the right direction.
Should I stick with an OX, 6:1 and higher pressures and fast line speeds or consider a different brand of winch with higher ratios, different pressures and flow rates...

6:1 is ok with the motor that is fitted.

Motor torque is proportional to motor displacement x pressure drop.

T (N.m) = disp (cm^3) x pressure drop (bar) / 62.8

T (lbf.in) = disp (in^3) x pressure drop (psi) / 6.28

For actual torque multiply by motor efficiency ~ 0.89

Line pull = motor torque x 6 (for 6:1) / radius of rope coil on drum.

If torque is in N.m and radius is in mm then line pull is in kN. Multiply kN by 100 to get ~ kg line pull.

RPM = flow rate (litre/min) x 1000 / motor disp (cm^3)

RPM = flow (US gal/min) x 231 / motor disp (in^3)

For actual speed multiply by vol efficiency ~ 0.94

My Ox 10000 has a Danfoss DH315 motor. Some have White motors.

Some specs for the DH315 are:

displacement 306.1 cm^3 (18.73 in^3).
max cont speed 200 rpm (245 rpm intermittent).
max cont pressure drop 90 bar (1300 psi) (121 bar or 1750 psi intermittent).
max cont flow 60 litre/min (15.9 US gal/min) (70 l/min or 19.8 US gal/min intermittent).
max cont torque 355 N.m (3140 lbf.in) (470 N.m or 4160 lbf.in intermittent).
max cont power 6 kW (8 HP) (7.8 kW or 10.5 HP intermittent).

Originally Posted by defenderbilby

...Should I also change the motor?...

If you want.

One option is to fit a smaller displacement motor to increase winch speed and increase the system pressure to obtain a similar motor torque.

But you really need to make these decisions with the hyd system as a whole. i.e. knowing pump flow, system pressure and the desired line speed and pull.

The stock motors are gerator type. Geroller motors are more efficient and can be used at higher operating pressures.

Originally Posted by defenderbilby

...Those with hydraulic winches, what are your set-ups?
Thanks,
David.

I have front and rear hyd winches, engine driven gear pump (~90 l/min @ 3000 rpm) with electric clutch and dual manual control valves. Rear winch is Ox 10000.

The Ox winch is a rebadged Mile Marker. If you go to the Mile Marker web site it has the operating pressure and flow, based on a typical US power steering pump.

The mod to the relief valve of the 300Tdi pump, shown in the pic below can be used to increase the pressure to ~ 1500 psi.

Originally Posted by Bush65

I have front and rear hyd winches, engine driven gear pump (~90 l/min @ 3000 rpm) with electric clutch and dual manual control valves....

mate ... dobbed yourself in there

further explanation and pics required

G'day John,
I would also like to see some photos of the spool set-up inside the cab if you can.

With that information I will keep the Ox motor. Had a look and the motor is the Danfoss DH315 so I now have the spec's.
What pressures have you set on your release valve? The specs give a max. continuous pressure drop of 1750psi intermittent.

TJM sell the Ox hydraulic and I believe made their winch bars to suit the winch. The hydraulic winch will pull very high forces and can bend mounts if not carefull, though not an issue with the power steering pump of a LandRover in a normal set up.

If I can, I would like to have a look at your system. I only plan to have a front mount winch.

Thanks, David.

Originally Posted by EchiDna

mate ... dobbed yourself in there

further explanation and pics required

Sorry can't give you installed pics. Rangie is undergoing trayback conversion and engine swap.

The front winch is a warn highmount being converted to hyd. Has pneumatic free spool drum. Rexroth bent axis motor will replace the elec motor. Hyd motor disp is 5 cm^3, max cont speed is 10,000 rpm (11,000 internittent). From memory, motor will be about 20HP.

Below are some pics showing the highmount winch sans motor, the ox winch that will go on the back, tiny rexroth motor and part finished adaptor, dual control valve bank and the engine driven hyd pump.

Does anybody know if you can convert a Thomas PTO winch to hydraulic ?
Thanks Pete