The smart ar$e answer is, his suspension setup and/or chosen route is better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utemad
When you say "non retained springs" do you mean dislocation cones and springs completely unhooking on that particular trail?
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The smart ar$e answer is, his suspension setup and/or chosen route is better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utemad
When you say "non retained springs" do you mean dislocation cones and springs completely unhooking on that particular trail?
His suspension setup is better than mine. That's the point:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dougal
As for his route, I can't folloow his exact route when he uses all his suspension travel. I just stop with zero traction and have to turn on my locker.
When I say non retained springs I mean retained at the bottom but not at the top. Which is standard. He has dislocation cones now but they don't make the suspension travel further or put weight over wheels etc. They just guide the spring back into its seat.
So are you running the same length shocks and the same length/rate springs as him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Utemad
What does that matter?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougal
The point is that his suspension travels further than mine and dislocates the springs in order to achieve that.
There has been a long running retained vs unretained springs argument on this site where some people say that unretained springs that give extra travel do not do anything for your traction (minimal weight on the wheel). TombRaider made mention of this so I'd thought I'd put this out there. I don't know the answer either way.
So if unretained springs with longer travel than what I have did nothing for his traction then why does he do a line of wombat holes easily without lockers where I would be cross axled and stoppped for example.
I think the answer is that unretained springs do help your traction with the longer travel achieved. Whether retained springs do it better is the question.
This directly relates to the original poster's questions.
It matters because spring rates and length dictate traction far more than other variables in your suspension. Especially when you throw in different length shocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utemad
Comparing two systems with completely different springs and travel then putting the performance difference down to one minor difference is a little silly.
Traction is directly related to the weight on your wheels. If you have a dislocated spring then the only weight is from the tyre/axle and a tiny bit cantilevered off the other side.
Softer rate springs spread the weight more evenly when articulated. The result is more traction.
Stiffer springs will give you less traction even with all wheels still on the groun.
I aggree and i have found that unretained (at the top) with dislacation cones work great they keep the wheels on the ground thus giving enough traction to drive through most cross axled stuff without lockers ....Quote:
Originally Posted by Utemad
As for extra length in the shocks 625 mm in the front and 700 mm extended lengths work great with 3in over coils tho rear dislacation cones are a must to reseat the top of the rear coils right :D:D:D:D
I have a set of super soft rear coils which I put in my 110 for off-roading and a stiffer set for towing. It only takes about 10mins to change them. The softer coils make a massive difference to traction. I have always tried to use the softest possible coils front and rear, even if it means lower ride height or more body roll.
Raising the top mount and using a longer shock is much better than lowering the top mount (as the Poms tend to do) to get more droop as compression travel is retained.
If your spring dislocates then you have very little weight on that wheel and the chances are very little traction from that wheel, or that axle unless you have an axle diff lock engaged.
On my 110 I have the X spring fitted although I had to modify the turrent as they are designed to fit the smaller diameter 90 springs. Originally had Pro comp +4 shocker/dampners fitted.
Following photo shows set up in action with the X spring still pushing downwards with a force of about 300 kg.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...007/12/351.jpg
This POM does not believe in lower top mounts :p as the chances of bottomening shocker/dampner out is increased. The Pro Comp +4 lasted one trip of 8,000 miles (12,800km). Problem was they were bottomening out at 50 mph when hitting deep transverse ruts in poor roads in Eastern Europe.
Now have Extreme +8 fitted with RAISED top mounts. Have not tried the new set up in anger yet but it will be tested out over Xmas/New Year.
Also have an ARB locker fitted in rear axle as well :D
Regards
Brendan