300tdi vs td5

The Landy in this link is an old model :eek:
Derick Lean's Africa Overland Page

Yes! the TD5 is more sophisticated with an electronic management system but on the whole they don`t have too many problems. The oil in the injection harness was common in the earlier models but most have probably been adressed by now.
If you want a bit more power, the TD5 has 101Kw as opposed to 83 for the TDI.
Both are very good for low speed off road use,but the TD5 is superior on the highway.

I still like my simple 300Tdi:p , But this is my personal feelings and not meant to sway anyone its all personal choice and its a free country:angel:

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Originally Posted by Slunnie

I think that this comment has completely destryed any arguement that the vehicle selection has anything to do with reliability. There are quite clearly other contributing factors to the choices being made over there.
ight it possibly be cost related by any chance do you think?


Yep, the introduction of electronic controls has done away with many of the mechanical parts of the motor vehicle these days, such as electronic ignition and the doing away with distributors. Getting rid of unreliable carburettors and vapour locking/flooding fuel systems. Not at all applicable with Electronic Diesels.....Or any Diesels for that matter

There is no doubt in my mind that electronic controls have made vehicles more reliable by just comparing the numbers of break downs that I used to see as a kid, especially on a hot day compared to the very very few that seem to be around todayAs I stated before, this is probably more due to the older vehicals not having radiator expansion tanks.

Interestingly, today the contol computer will also allow you to continue if it can, reduce the problem if it can so the vehicle remains mobile, and also limit damage by shutting engine bits down progresively.Until so much damage is done that there is no other use for the engine other than a boat anchor

Old school is to run it until steam comes out and the engine is warped and then if it’s an iron engine then cool it off, if it has alloy components then replace them.Maybe thats what you would do but even Mrs Mc would stop if she saw the temp guage go up and I think most people would if they had the slightest bit of care about their vehicals



Based on a previous comment about them using 109’s, I really don’t think that the choice of the Tdi motor is primarily based on reliability.



Yep, there are those that still use the abacus and those that enjoy the calculator . If a sensor goes bad the 4WD will more than likely keep going anyway. Really, I not only have a calculator but I have new fangled Scientific one that does all sorts of evil stuff

As hard as you try to convert the thinking of peoples thinking to your own, some just wont agree with you on this issue and never will agree with you on this issue.
Re spares, no you don’t have to carry spare sensors at all. Why would you? If a sensor goes bad, the computer logs it and you keep driving. Unlike a Tdi though, you don’t have to carry a spare head incase it breaks, nor the valve train incase the timing belt snaps – yup, they do snap a hell of a long way before 80,000km – a driving mates (RIP) I believe went at 50,000km taking out the top end and Blackknight is probably the only one that would be fixing that on the side of the track. Funnily enough if you do carry some sensors, they are still a hell of a lot cheaper, smaller and lighter than a head, timing belt and valve train.... but you don’t carry all of those because it probably wont break anyway.

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Ok to refresh everyones memory, I havnt been trying to convert people to one way or another.......

I have said for the last 2 or 3 days.......... It depends on how much money you have and thats about it.:o

You seem to have plenty of cash at hand and that means you either work hard or are in a very well paid job.:D

Either way, you can do what you want with your money and I choose for mine, (as with personalised plates) that I will keep my 300TDI and run the gauntlet with the timing belt, head and valve train (which is all crap anyway as I havnt had any of these problems ever and neither had any of the previous owners).:D

As far as changing a timing belt on the side of the road, I would have no probs doing that as well, I am a mechanic as well just not LR specific and amazingly enough, some of my machines over the years have had engines with timing belts that needed changing occasionally and funnly enough I used to do it.:p

I havnt heard of (and ive only worked on Diesels for 12 years for my Job and for about 5 years on the farm) a Diesel flooding from a dodgy carbi or not running because of electronic ignition so I dont think that your point was really made with that paragraph Slunnie.:D

Lets see, at the end of the day:

-: you spend more on the vehical to start with,
-: tyres and parts as well as fluids all cost more,
-: not as many people are set up to repair them and most normal workshops wont work on them at all,
-: You dont need to take more parts along but if you do it could cost you an extra $200 odd for the sensors.
-: Mods normally cost more and a lot less can be done legally,
-: Insurance in most cases costs more.

Thats just for starters on the TD5 as to why I dont want one but every one is quite welcome to make up their own mind but in my opinion and from what others have said, this is pretty accurate........IN MY OPINION...:D

Edit.....
If fitted correctly with the proper mods as done by LRA then there is no reason why the timing belt wouldnt last longer than 80,000kms but we all change them then because of the preventative maintenance side of things.

I have had 1 mate that has lunched a timing belt and it went if spectacular style at the servo after filling up with diesel and just wouldnt crank over.

They replaced the timing belt ONLY, no valve damage or damage to the head or anything major to worry about and it was done at the dealer about 5 blocks down from the servo.

But wow, he now says to me on a regular basis that he should have listened to me when I told him to take it to Jamie and get the timing belt changed before they left..........Again funny that.

The worst thing that can really happen to a 300TDI is that it's expansion tank would crack and it over heat, this can cause major damage as it also would do to a TD5......Again Funny that.

300 TDI's are for those who had a crush on Pippa from Home And Away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slunnie

I think that this comment has completely destryed any arguement that the vehicle selection has anything to do with reliability. There are quite clearly other contributing factors to the choices being made over there.



Yep, the introduction of electronic controls has done away with many of the mechanical parts of the motor vehicle these days, such as electronic ignition and the doing away with distributors. Getting rid of unreliable carburettors and vapour locking/flooding fuel systems. There is no doubt in my mind that electronic controls have made vehicles more reliable by just comparing the numbers of break downs that I used to see as a kid, especially on a hot day compared to the very very few that seem to be around today. Interestingly, today the contol computer will also allow you to continue if it can, reduce the problem if it can so the vehicle remains mobile, and also limit damage by shutting engine bits down progresively. Old school is to run it until steam comes out and the engine is warped and then if it’s an iron engine then cool it off, if it has alloy components then replace them.

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pssst. The electronic controlled one has the alloy bits;).

I wouldn't want to overheat any diesel engine:eek:.
No, I wouldn't want to overheat ANY of my engines, so I take steps to prevent that (an EMS among them).


..Back to your normal programming..

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Originally Posted by ak

As time passes and D3's start to age I bet we will be saying the same about D3's in a few years. However the D3 owners will be along soon to flame me, and state a D3 is more reliable than a D2 so to clarify( and before anyone gets their nickers in a twist ) that is not the point I am trying to make the point being with even fewer D3's selling than D2's there will be bugger all people around that will want to work on them out side capital cities. That's the price we pay for driving classic vehicle's more than a few years old that the masses don't or won't drive.

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And they are so ugly too :(

Originally Posted by ak
As time passes and D3's start to age I bet we will be saying the same about D3's in a few years. However the D3 owners will be along soon to flame me, and state a D3 is more reliable than a D2 so to clarify( and before anyone gets their nickers in a twist ) that is not the point I am trying to make the point being with even fewer D3's selling than D2's there will be bugger all people around that will want to work on them out side capital cities. That's the price we pay for driving classic vehicle's more than a few years old that the masses don't or won't drive

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Originally Posted by Ian

And they are so ugly too :(

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Now how do I get my hands on Matts pop corn smilie :p:wasntme::angel:

Costs... I think that the intial purchase cost has probably got a lot to do with it and whatever they have they try to keep running as long as they ca. I guess part of the culture there is to be as resourcful as possible and so many people that I know personally from there have such a deliteful spirit of adventure. It's fantastic I think.

Comparing old engines generally - it's still applicable. Ref to carbies etc was more of a comparison between old/new generally rather than diesel specific, but point taken.

Expansion tanks is probably only 1 area, no doubt there are many other areas.

No, the computer will shut down what it has to to keep you moving with the design to also prevent damage. Thats why things like AC automatically switch off, power is reduced, cylinders are made inactive etc etc etc.

IF you see the temp gauge move up into the danger zone (hmmm, sounds like a Top Gun song. :D ) then most would stop, but there are a lot of people that have popped engines because they don't watch that gauge like a hawk. Interstingly, if the engine goes dry then the gauge doesn't work - though I've got a Redarc beeper thing in mine now so that I know if the coolant is low.

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-: you spend more on the vehical to start with,
-: tyres and parts as well as fluids all cost more, Same tyres, similar parts + the centrifuge, same oils. But this allows 20,000km servicing instead of 5 or 10K.
-: not as many people are set up to repair them and most normal workshops wont work on them at all, I've never heard of anybody actaully finding a workshop that wouldn't work on them. It's all money so they'll get greasy. The only things some luddites can't do is interrogate the computer.
-: You dont need to take more parts along but if you do it could cost you an extra $200 odd for the sensors. I've not heard of any TD5 sensors going bad though.
-: Mods normally cost more and a lot less can be done legally, Actually quite the opposite. The TD5 is really cheap to mod with massive gains. 200kw for under $2k fitted is pretty good. Even just a bigger intercooler which is legal from an emissions perspective frees the motor right up. How much do Tdi mods cost and what gains do you get?
-: Insurance in most cases costs more. Because the value of the vehicle is worth more.

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It'd be really interesting to see the difference in servicing costs and running costs between the TDi and the TD5. I'm not sure what the results would be, but I don't think there would be a lot of difference. The tdi probably has cheaper filters but requires timing belts. The TD5 has an additional filtering centrifuge and needs the occasional loom ($200), but also has up to a 20,000km service interval.

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Originally Posted by 100I

pssst. The electronic controlled one has the alloy bits;).

I wouldn't want to overheat any diesel engine:eek:.
No, I wouldn't want to overheat ANY of my engines, so I take steps to prevent that (an EMS among them).


..Back to your normal programming..

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The TD5's got a stack of alloy bits - I reckon if you cook them as with any alloy motor, then they're well done unfortunately. Likewise I've fitted a low coolant warning, because if there is no coolant then the temp gauge is useless also. Whats the EMS?