300tdi vs td5

Only problem I have had with two TDI's was that I couldn't keep up with fan belts. They were replaced about every 10000ks. Lack of torque down low and when towing, if baulked going up hill, requires a Low range start and mobile upshift in the transfer case to get going. I replaced my manual with an auto to overcome this problem but the problem still arose.
Upgraded to a TD5 and am extremely happy with this engine for my towing requirements. Its magic.
But, electronics are a bit of a problem. Had a load of problems with the sensor on the top of the gear box, and when this played up the vehicle went into "limp home" mode (3rd gear). This problem was overcome by extending the a/c drain hose by 2" so the water didn't drop on the switch. Stupid things like that are a fact of life but if you can find a mech who thinks "outside the squre" they are a bloody good engine, or so it is in my experience anyway.
Regards
Glen

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Originally Posted by mcrover

Im a big fan of the 300TDI as im a huge fan of mechanical simplicity and not so much of electronics in 4wd's.

From my point of veiw and I have been prooven wrong to a point so far with a lot of TD5's is that even electronics will wear out and they are in generally harder for the average mechanic to sort out and normally much more expensive.

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I agree with mcrover, mechanical simplicity is a very good factor in a ATV
I have the chance to purchasing a TD5 for the some money 3 years ego and went for my Tdi 300 and I never regreat it! I done 70000 km and changed the timing belts and the tensioner for the other belts. It have 170000 now
I am looking for a Defy or a County and is a must to not have electronics!
Cheers

ok I'm a 300tdi owner so I am biased towards 300tdi's.

However in answer to some people's issues with lack of power on a 300tdi there are ways to increase power including getting an auto, tweaking the injectors or these days going with lpg fumigation.

On top of that if you want to run bio-diesel then don't look at a Td5, from what I've read on this very forum it specifically states in the Td5 manual that you should not run bio-diesel in a Td5 as it (I believe) clogs up the injectors. Someone may correct me on the reason why but I definitely have seen many people say the Td5 manual says you should not run bio-diesel.

Lastly with the 300tdi's you don't need to worry about what year etc. to see if you need a CDL installed. As anyone will tell you Traction Control is great but you need a CDL as well. I believe it was from 2001(?) they removed the button, 2002 they removed the kit completely from the transfer case, and 2003 they rapidly put it all back in due to some near fatal accidents off-road where Traction Control by itself wasn't enough.

Having said that as someone else in a County vs Defender debate stated, a 300tdi will most likely have more km's on the clock than a td5....

My 0.02c worth anyway :)

I just couldn't live with the lack of power from the Tdi or the poor low down drivability. Really, if you want to keep up with the traffic, then the TD5 is the way to go - then chip and intercool it for some really good performance.


Despite what you read, really the only common problem with the TD5 is the oil in the injector loom. It's not an expensive cost to change it. Changing the injector loom happens at around the same interval as changing the timing belt on the Tdi or less depending. The rest of the TD5 problems you read about are not all that widespread at all, but they get thrown around forums like they happen every day to every owner where it is just not the case, and there are many TD5's getting around now with well over 200,000km and still going exceptionally strong and have never had anything done to them which is out of the ordinary - not even an injector loom. The TD5 I think will be a very long lived motor, evidence seems to be pointing in this direction as the TD5's age and the number of 200,000km+ D2's that are still very healthy. The Tdi I tend to think are getting tired at about 250,000km, although they do keep going beyond this depending on use, servicing and tolerance of the owner.

With the head problems, it will relate to engines that have been overheated or suffered a trauma. The dowel problem doesn't "just happen". The oil pump problem I understand was a handful of engines. Just about all of the TD5's that missed the loctite on the bolt still had the bolt done up tight enough to not cause problems. This will have been sorted by now if the vehicle has been serviced by LandRover or a specialist. The electronics are fine also. Not to say that they will never ever give problems, but again it's not the normal. I've been on a Disco2 chat group for australia and also globally for about 6 years now, and it is very rare to hear about problems like this amongst members - of whom are probably the hardest on the vehicles of all. The D2 will take a good solid dunking and still drive out on the other side of the river - the ECU is placed well and it stays dry. That said, there are a few other computers in the footwells - so be warned if you're deeper than sill deep.

Otherwise, you'll also get cruise, split climate, traction control, updated dash and interior, nicer seats, ACE, SLS, larger and usable boot space, excellent factory alarm system etc. Just sitting in a D2 and a D1 will make your mind up.

Being a Tdi owner - you will always find me in the left lane (slow lane) at the lights, not wanting to hold people up waiting for the turbo to spool up when they go green (I have a manual). But ya get used to it.... it has never had me desiring more power. Sure I've played with the fueling on mine - more for the sake of experimentation than anything else. And I luv getting 8lt/100km (sometimes low 7's), and the simplicity and reliability that others have mentioned. It's a great donk for long distance touring and off-road work.

But now I want to tow stuff. Heavy stuff. Sure the Tdi can do it. But I dont want to be that wally holding up traffic on long hills or into strong winds. And no amount of fuel pump mods or intercooler upgrades etc, etc will really fix that.

So my advice is dont get a Tdi if you plan to do heavy towing - you will eventually be frustrated, unless you dont care about other traffic and dont mind ambling along - in which case you will very happy indeed.

I'm probably being impudent poking my nose in here - I don't have personal experience of either engine, but I have been following owner's experiences for years (of both).

As I see it, the Tdi engine is somewhat simpler, and is easier to understand, and hence more likely to stand up to abuse and poor servicing, and be more likely to be able to be repaired by a non-Landrover mechanic (worth thinking about in light of the scarcity of Landrover mechanics outside the capital cities). And parts are relatively cheap and readily found. On the other hand it is cruder and less modern, less powerful, and, I suspect heavier.

The TD5, in my view, is more modern and refined, probably generally lower maintenance, and probably more reliable (despite the oil-in-harness, oil pump bolt etc), as well as more powerful and lighter. Fuel efficiency is slightly better, but this is not obvious if you use the extra power, as you will use more fuel. But the downside is that if there are problems, they are likely to be much more expensive, and parts will be harder to find and more expensive. They appear to be less tolerant of abuse and poor maintenance as well. And it is unlikely that you will find a non-Landrover mechanic who will do anything for you except order a tow to the nearest capital city.

John

This is my first diesel and i am really suprised by some comments about lack of performance of the tdi auto, i have never wanted for more power except for when towing a 1200kg caravan going up long inclines, day to day i find i can surprise a few car drivers keeping up or even pulling away from them - and mine is dead stock @ 222k.

My five sents worth, the td5 great for hwy work and tracks around civilization (good work shop within 700 kms).
Tdi300 solid work horse, not speady but you dont drive a defender for speed and more easly repaired when a long way from any one who cares.

Everyone worries about the electronics on TD5's, but in all my time here I can only remember one incident of a throttle sensor failing. I believe the later ones had a different more reliable arrangement. The oil in harness problem is something that can be checked and should not ever surprise someone on a trip.

In a defender the car is no more dependent on electronics than all the other fuel injected cars on the road (which is now probably 98%+). You just don't hear of these systems failing.

V8 rangies are just as dependent on their electronic "brain" and they don't give problems. Most people will take the efi model over the carby one if they have a choice.

We bought new which is a bit different (and that's not what is being asked), but one of my main motivations was the Chuck Yeagar philosophy of the "the newest plane is always the best". We do remote stuff and reliability was important.

What Slunnie mentions is right on the money. Sit in and then drive a D1 and then a D2 and you'll pick the D2 any day. In fact, most will have no real issues at all, even fewer problems in the post '02 models.

I remain convinced that despite the lack in power and torque, for remote area travelling a simple and non electronic dependent engine and trans(Auto) is the way to go. The reasons that JDNSW mentions are true, that there are precious few 'mechanics' willing to touch the later stuff for anything, some don't even want to service them!

Personal opinion;
I work on and consequently drive all these on a regular basis.
I would have a 2003 on(Upgraded lamps version) auto, chipped non ACE/SLS D2 in a flash for an everyday driver and local offf road stuff, but I would keep my Isuzu RR for outback towing and travel . It fills me with total confidence that RR, I know that I can leave home here and drive to the cape without lifting the bonnet or expecting any problems. The Defender. My other pick for outback touring. A 130 Tdi, they are geared low enough to be powerful enough with a decent load,they have an unbreakable chassis and suspension in standard trim is well up to it. They are also simple and not really unlike a series in many ways. The Td5 version again, great for local and 'mild' tourinhg, but still too complex for roadside DIY or local servo knowledge. A great pity as the power and torque of a chipped Td5 trransforms the 130 into a perfect tow vehicle.

Each person must choose their vehicle using a set of criteria specific to their own needs. Make yourself a list and honestly ask questions such as 'do I need heaps of power/ toerque, or is standard OK? and Do I need a decent A/C system, or at all? etc.

If it wasn't such a headache, I would build myself a 130 DC like the following; fit a new 4BD1T and a 5spd auto, rooftop aircon (Like Gerry's 110) some recaros and decent cabin soundproofing and that would be my ultimate outback tourer and work truck:cool:

Simple, Powerful/ torquey, quiet on the road, and comfortable.

JC