Thread: More snake oil?

Pedro those things work REALLY WELL but NOT AS GOOD AS my patented 'gullibility polariser' which I can sell you for the bargain-basement price of $39-95*





*per instalment. Monthly instalments over 5 years.

Originally Posted by Dougal

I'm afraid the world (except for the conmen) are in disagreement with you over this one and always will be.
Water does not make hydrogen, water is in fact burn't hydrogen. Trying to run an engine on water will be as successful as setting fire to ashes.

I am an engineer and I often come across people with little technical knowledge spouting off with claims which are physically impossible. In most cases a good grasp of high school physics will show you exactly why these things are doomed to fail.

Some examples.
The 100mpg carburettor.
The 200mpg carburettor.
Magnets around fuel lines.
Fuel catalysts.
Hiclones.
HHO.
Engines that run on water.
Efficiency greater than 100%.
Perpetual motion machines.
etc.

First law of thermodynamics:
You can never win, you can only break even.

Second law of thermodynamics:
You can only break even at absolute zero.

Third law of thermodynamics:
You cannot get to absolute zero.

These laws have never been broken. Many who have claimed to have broken them have been exposed as frauds, the rest, simply mistaken.

Fair point about the hydrogen and I am the first to admit I do not know the technicalities of how this engine supposedlly ran all i remember is it was based on the use of water and only ever saw it exhibited the once and that was 20 plus years ago. If I knew his name I would gladly give it to you. There must have been something in it as he was bought out.I can still remember this being on TV and in the paper. Was he a con man? Well if he was he was a good one.
As said an invention is only part of the scenario being able to market it is another.
The rule of physics are neither fast or absolute and there is a lot of discussion around these laws being rethought and possiblly disproved.
Was my Uncle a bad businessman, probablly, was he a good inventor, maybe.
Do we give inventors credit for inventions, not often.
As an engineer I understand you only think inside the box (Myers Briggs have proven this with personality profilling) but there are many more who think outside the box and more often than not they will be wrong, but every now and then one comes along that turns everything on its head. I am not saying for a minute believe everyones invention, but we should be prepared to look outside the norm.

Originally Posted by Dougal

Steam engines run on coal. Water is just the transport medium.

Um there is something wrong with that statement. The coal is burnt to heat the water to create steam to create pressure/energy.

OK I am gonna wave the white flag as I think this discussion has reached a point where it is becoming silly and we have missed the point.
Yes there are physical restarint and barriers as to what can be achieved and what can not. These are not hard and fast for all and some move and alter. Only history will show what changes and what does not, what is proven, disproven and proven again.
The whole discussion was originally around wether something worked or was snake oil and I appologise to the original poster. My opinion on this is it did not always have to have an apparent reason for working, although if it did work eventually science would discover why. There is a lot we still do not understand.
The second point was really around if inventors are given credit for inventions to which I do not believe they always are and there are many people out there who want to con us or rip our ideas off.
Basically what I am saying is we should all give someone a fair chance to prove their product works or have it disproved, but should not discard it out of hand as it does not conform with our way of thinking.
I have absolutely no time for people who want to con or rip another off, but there are those who are thinking laterally for alternative solutions and some believe their results even if they are flawed.
Do I believe a engine could run on water alone? Well no. If one can it would obviously be a lot more complex than just filling with water and in the end I do not know how the example worked (otherwise I would be rich or commited).
Any way enough dribble, lets get back to talking Rovers and come up with some other drivel that we can argue about and when I get home on Wed we should all sit down and have a bourbon or 6.

Pm me when you get home Craig--
mmmmm bourbon

your place or mine?




I think this thread and the "Paranormal" one are similar in many ways, sometimes theres a fine line between gullability and good salesmanship.

If you THINK your hiclone works,, it was good salesmanship.

Originally Posted by Pedro_The_Swift

<snip>


I think this thread and the "Paranormal" one are similar in many ways, sometimes theres a fine line between gullability and good salesmanship.
<snip>

was just thinking the same thing

'tis a funny thing, working in the fields I have you trust your instruments, gauges, stop watches, data, etc, but in life I'm actually happiest when I've gone with the my instincts, the intangible.....

Go figure.....

Originally Posted by Dougal

Steam engines run on coal. Water is just the transport medium.

You could say the same of a Prius or a Hydrogen car.

Cheers
Simon

Originally Posted by CraigE

The rule of physics are neither fast or absolute and there is a lot of discussion around these laws being rethought and possiblly disproved.

The laws of thermodynamics are fast and absolute. They have not been broken ever.

Originally Posted by CraigE

As an engineer I understand you only think inside the box (Myers Briggs have proven this with personality profilling) but there are many more who think outside the box and more often than not they will be wrong, but every now and then one comes along that turns everything on its head. I am not saying for a minute believe everyones invention, but we should be prepared to look outside the norm.

*cough*absolutebull*****cough*.

The "inside the box argument" is simply this.
People who have no idea of the limitataions of natural laws, materials and components get ****ed when their half baked ideas are rubbished by those more enlightened. They then label their thinking as "outside the box" to appear more trendy and feel superiour to the people they just lost an argument with.