Thread: what drives/feels better? (Series3 question)

Originally Posted by dandlandyman

Thanks Brian. My only question is, how would that tuning feel in slow off road work? My Forward Control has already been fitted with a normal (not special low-geared) transmission so I wouldn't need an overdrive, and it currently wears 8.25x16 tyres (though I wouldn't mind fitting the original 9.00x16 size later if I could find some at a reasonable price). High speed cruising ability would be great, but only if it doesn't hunt or anything too much in low range. Ultimately, is the 161 Holden the wrong choice for this use?

Dan

Finding 9.00 16 Radials at a reasonable price is a bit difficult, the only ones available in Oz currently seem to be Michelin XZY with a speed rating of 110 KPH and $600.00 + each. If you go to cross-ply your legal max speed is reduced to 80 or 90 KPH.

You may find that running 8.25s on the standard box gives you better pulling power than the 9.00s (9.00s on standard box gives you the same speed /1K RPM as 6.00 16 on a standard box with overdrive engaged). There are also quite a lot more options for 8.25 16 radial tyres at reasonable prices around a 1/4 or 1/3 the price of the Michelin.

Regarding the Holden engines, while getting a bit old now the ones that had the best reputation in Land Rovers were the 186s with a cam off a manual box. (although there are better cams available off the shelf.) Search the archives for information on Holden conversions and if you go that way it is advisable to fit an oil cooler as the Holden engine doesn't have a large oil volume.

PM me for more info.

C Ya
Diana

Originally Posted by Jimmy

hmmmm. thanks for all the advice everyone, though I don't think I am any closer to a decision. I currently have a 186 stock single strongberg motor running in my GS. The Rover 6 is sitting patiently in the engine bay of my currently "spare parts" GS. I think ideally I would want a deisel - either a 2&1/4, TDi or anything, but my options are limited and funds even less.

Anyone want to swap a 6 for a diesel motor??

What type of transfer box, diffs etc would go well with a 186?

cheers jim

Jimmy

For a Series III 88" Rover car 4.3:1 diffs are a good option with the 186, however the diffs can be a bit difficult to find these days. The rear Salisbury on the 109" make swapping diffs out of the question, unless you want to go to 4.1:1 which are expensive and a bit too tall for the 186.

The high speed transfer case is an option, however there are some quality control problems with the conversion. Jeff Rainsford in Nowra received a kit where the intermediate gear supplied with the kit bound up the transfer case, he only solved the problem by swapping the gear out of another customer's car. The new gear ran O.K. in the old conversion and the old gear ran without binding in the new conversion. Go figure!

Diana

Yes, I'd love a diesel, too, but I can't even think of affording one, so I know what you mean.

The usual set-up is a Holden 202 or 186, a late SIIA gearbox - it's supposed to be stronger - and a later IIA or a SIII transfer case, and 3.54 diffs, which you can get for a Salisbury if you get a Stage I crownwheel and pinion. With something like 7.50/R16 tyres, this used to be the favourite thing.

I have a 186 in Daisy, it's a great motor.
Has enough power low down & gets a pretty good cruising speed, especially with the Fairey.
Very simple easy to work on motors with heaps of performance upgrdes avaliable.

On the flipside the 2.25 motor is also a great motor & pretty easy to work on.

I would stick with the 186 & build yourself up a nice 2.25 slowly, you have a running 186 why waste it?

Originally Posted by gumby190

I would stick with the 186 & build yourself up a nice 2.25 slowly, you have a running 186 why waste it?

Agreed -
Maybe when/if the 186 carks it, turf it for the rover, but it's a shame to spend money on things what ain't yet broke.
plus it gives you longer to save for a Diesel, if thats your particular brand of fun

Originally Posted by dandlandyman

Thanks Brian. My only question is, how would that tuning feel in slow off road work? My Forward Control has already been fitted with a normal (not special low-geared) transmission so I wouldn't need an overdrive, and it currently wears 8.25x16 tyres (though I wouldn't mind fitting the original 9.00x16 size later if I could find some at a reasonable price). High speed cruising ability would be great, but only if it doesn't hunt or anything too much in low range. Ultimately, is the 161 Holden the wrong choice for this use?

The only mod suggested that will affect low speed performance is the camshaft. A good cam grinder will suggest one that will give you a bit more top end with little effect on the excellent low speed torque of the 202. Remember, we are building a 5000 rpm street engine, not a 6000-7000 rpm race engine. As to the 161, always remember the old engine builders rule of thumb, there is no substitute for cubic inches. Get Phil. Irvings excellent little common sense books, Tuning for Performance and others.

One point I forgot to mention is that when I had the Holden, I started off in second gear. (I didn't realise at the time that second wasn't all that strong and even if I travelled for three metres in first before shifting, that was still the better way.)

When I changed to the 2.25 petrol, I definitely had to start off in first. That's how much difference in torque there was.

As Brian pointed out above, "there's no replacement for displacement". That's why I'm changing to a Rover V8 and associated bits!

Originally Posted by Davo

... As Brian pointed out above, "there's no replacement for displacement". That's why I'm changing to a Rover V8 and associated bits!

Davo

If you swap for a Rover V8, you'll want to swap for the the compatible transmission otherwise you will definately have associated bits from the series gearbox floating around in the oil.

Diana