Thread: Bilstein steering damper - I'm sick of it.

I dredged this (post from rick130) up from a previous thread:

i psyscially cant compress a new bilstein SD, ask mahn!

you are trying to compress it against gas pressure, this has nothing to do with the valving. Bilstein and Koni are both mono-tube steering dampers and so use a floating piston and Nitrogen chamber at the end of the tube.
I honestly don't think this is the best design for a steering damperBilstein) as it can make the steering want to turn of its own accord if the swivel pre-load isn't enough. (although I use a I've actually heard of someone fitting a De Carbon one and have their Landy do circle work when they took their hands off the wheel.

but i can compress my RTC one at least 2''. so that sort of dispells the fact that there ''to stiff'' [/b]

again, you are only compressing it against (very) low speed valving. A damper can be set up to have very little resistance at very low speeds by using a (relatively) large bleed, then have it firm up very quickly at speeds the designer determines a bump would cause kick back through the steering.
Remember that a steering damper works the same as your suspension dampers (shock absorbers), and is there to perform a similar function, only it's lying down.[/I]

Swivel pre-load eh? Don't know much about that, I'm afraid.

I have one on my RR, and have fitted numerous with no ill effects, (BUT I don't have the damper in the same place as a Defender. The rangie has it on the track rod, not the primary drag link so what you are suggetsing is theoretically possible, although I haven't come across it before.) I would also definately check your castor measurements, has the vehicle been lifted at the front? Is the toe out correct? (0 to 2mm toe out) and the tyre pressures even?

The swivel preloads will be problematic if they are really loose, as the extending damper MAY just push the steering slightly, but I'm suprised if this is the case honestly. The loose swivel preloads will cause usually other problems, like wandering and shuddering etc.Plus if they are really loose, the swivel wiper seal will seep too I would lift the vehicle at the front on a trolley jack, both wheels off the ground and see if the steering will move to the right of it's own accord...

JC

I would like to give Wally a little support as I have the same problem in my D2.

I have recently put a lift in and replaced the steering dampner with a Bilstein. I am forever chasing the 'centre point' and it is so frustrating

My lift measurements are 530mm front guard to hub, and the rear is 535mm. I am still working throught it to 'whatever it takes' to get it right but that is not for us to hijack the discussion now.

Back to Wally's problem....

It is as if the natural centre point of the steering is to the right i.e. if you let go of the steering it will drift off to the right. I have done everything to make it correct with alignments which Bob Jane has said it wasn't far out but when you drive it the centre point is worse. I have adjusted the drag link to try and get the steering wheel centred but it appears to always be pointing to the right. I know we need to take into consideration the camber of the road and such but it just feel so unnatural to having to tug the steering wheel all the time just to keep it straight.

Interesting comments from all of you, indeed.

Originally Posted by feral

Back to Wally's problem....

It is as if the natural centre point of the steering is to the right i.e. if you let go of the steering it will drift off to the right. I have done everything to make it correct with alignments which Bob Jane has said it wasn't far out but when you drive it the centre point is worse. I have adjusted the drag link to try and get the steering wheel centred but it appears to always be pointing to the right. I know we need to take into consideration the camber of the road and such but it just feel so unnatural to having to tug the steering wheel all the time just to keep it straight.

Interesting comment from all of you, indeed.

mines the same(though with original damper and no lift)
after two different reputable places have checked alignments.

there is very slight extra wear on the outside of the front left--

Originally Posted by feral

I would like to give Wally a little support as I have the same problem in my D2.

I have recently put a lift in and replaced the steering dampner with a Bilstein. I am forever chasing the 'centre point' and it is so frustrating

My lift measurements are 530mm front guard to hub, and the rear is 535mm. I am still working throught it to 'whatever it takes' to get it right but that that is not for us to hijack the discussion now.

Back to Wally's problem....

It is as if the natural centre point of the steering is to the right i.e. if you let go of the steering it will drift off to the right. I have done everything to make it correct with alignments which Bob Jane has said it wasn't far out but when you drive it the centre point is worse. I have adjusted the drag link to try and get the steering wheel centred but it appears to always be pointing to the right. I know we need to take into consideration the camber of the road and such but it just feel so unnatural to having to tug the steering wheel all the time just to keep it straight.

Interesting comments from all of you, indeed.

Hi Lyndon,

The lift will cause a castor issue, one that is not adjustable on a D2 easily without cranked radius rods. (A d1 and defender can slot their swivel housings) this castor issue will accentuate any road camber effects or even slight damper loads due to the 'lightness' of the steering load .

I feel that even if the damper is contributing, I would also suggest addressing the castor adjustment for overall steering improvement. It should solve this problem too. (Don't forget, the non adjustable factory panhard rod will cause a steering wheel misalignment after a lift, but you have already adjusted the drag link, I think you mentioned?)

JC

Originally Posted by wally

I would have to advise anyone looking for a steering damper not buy a Bilstein. Sure, the damping's effective but it's always trying to self-extend against the steering, with the result being felt at the steering wheel as a pull to the right. Any self-centring the steering had before is gone. It's annoying and I'm sick of it. If anyone knows of any way to counter this effect I'd love to hear it.. But I doubt there is one other than removing it and replacing it with a self-centring damper of another brand.

i agree with what you've said! LRH b4 he left for his juant around OZ had all his steering components replaced and setup buy a tyre shop. new tie rod ends new track and drag links all correct to the factory spec's. when he got it back it pulled also, on the 3rd trip back to the shop he called me, i told him to pull the billie off and see what happens...... it drove straight as.... he took the dampner back to coopers for a refund and fitted a RTC.
problem solved.
i fitted one to mahns old disco at my place and to say it was a pain in the **** to fit was an understatement....

why youde want a dampner thats not neutral,,ie 50/50 is beyond me???

cheers phil

Originally Posted by justinc

I have one on my RR, and have fitted numerous with no ill effects, (BUT I don't have the damper in the same place as a Defender. The rangie has it on the track rod, not the primary drag link so what you are suggetsing is theoretically possible, although I haven't come across it before.) I would also definately check your castor measurements, has the vehicle been lifted at the front? Is the toe out correct? (0 to 2mm toe out) and the tyre pressures even?

The swivel preloads will be problematic if they are really loose, as the extending damper MAY just push the steering slightly, but I'm suprised if this is the case honestly. The loose swivel preloads will cause usually other problems, like wandering and shuddering etc.Plus if they are really loose, the swivel wiper seal will seep too I would lift the vehicle at the front on a trolley jack, both wheels off the ground and see if the steering will move to the right of it's own accord...

JC

i did this on mahns disco, and it turned 1.5 locks on the wheel
dont know how worn the components were, i was fitting one of my SD relocation kits at the time, oh and it still had the OE dampner on the rear of the diff...

cheers phil

Originally Posted by discowhite

i did this on mahns disco, and it turned 1.5 locks on the wheel
dont know how worn the components were, i was fitting one of my SD relocation kits at the time, oh and it still had the OE dampner on the rear of the diff...

cheers phil

Yes Phil it was a pig and I was pleased to replace it with an RTC Tuff Dog.

I recollect that the steering became an effort when the Billie was fitted

As for wear there may have been and still might be swivel preload issues on the disco that will need checking when Cousin John takes ownership. A general vagueness and some wobble even after replacing various bits