Pulling my hair out!! (and there's scarce any left) Darn TD5

I can't help feeling that, somehow or other, the timing has slipped. You seemed to have checked the fuel delivery pretty thoroughly, but the white smoke experienced as the engine stopped has me suspicious.

Have you checked the timing to see whether anything is wrong with the chain or sprockets?

Cheers,

Lionel

Have you tryed a tow start yet it will indicate a dodgy starter straight up if she fires with a tow/clutch start ;)

Hi Keith
I feel your pain. Here is my tuppence worth. You have checked out a lot already so what you have ruled out.
Fuel supply and pressure good
Cranking speed good or as good as before failure
Electronics good no codes/ hear solenoids clicking
Glow plugs would not cause failure or white smoke only hard start. Easy test remove wires and get a length of wire, hold on battery and touch each plug individually. Should give small spark if O.K if dead no spark.
The white smoke is the key to your diagnosis me thinks. It is atomised fuel going out your pipe not even looking like getting ignited.
Does the engine sound the same cranking over as before the failure e.g compression wise? If so then its unlikely to be lack of compression.
I have come across a similar problem on a vw common rail engine, which turned out to be the injector seals. Would now be a good time to say I have never laid a spanner on a td5:D,Although have been a heavy diesel mech a long time working Cat/Cummins, and latterly smaller car 4x4 diesels;)
If it was me I think the first thing I would do is remove the turbo pipe entering the intake manifold get a friend to crank it over, while spraying easy start in. If it fires and or tries to start up you can rule out timing and mostly compression. Lets face it diesels are basic Compression/ignition, its all the electronic rubbish which makes diagnosing harder. I had one the other day a 4 cyl which would not start.2 injectors were out but with easy start sprayed in it ran on 2. I have turned off injectors on the 6 cyl trucks and they will run on 2 as well:o My point is this. You could have a couple of injectors gone and it would be enough for the engine not to fire up but the ether would act like the ones not firing for long enough for it to start up.
I was wondering if the wiring loom inside the engine being contaminated may be throwing out the signal to the injectors even though you can hear the solenoids clicking, as this is a common fault.
The white smoke is normally a sign of poor compression, but it could be timing slipped as Lionel said . Here are a few scenarios/possibilities
Injectors mechanically faulty/leaking seals between high/lo pressure rail
Head gasket blown between 2 cyl do comp test
Oil in injector harness/ remove cover and check plugs
Timing slipped/moved
If all else fails burn it:p

Try the ether thing again, check glow plugs are working then if no go remove cover check harness and injector seals then engine timing.Let us know how you get on
Hope this is of help
Al

Quote:

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Originally Posted by revor

I see what you're saying Graeme but "i think" i have have that covered. I'll explain the setup better.....Does this testing hold water?

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I'm sure you have it covered!

Maybe someone who has a Nanocom could pull their fuel pump relay and see what revs they see when the starter turns the motor, then compare what you get to see if your starter is up to scratch.

Just checked it and its 245rpm on mine.

pulling the fuel pump relay stops the Nanocom initalizzing the ecu.

I disconnected the main injector plug to get the reading...

And just reading back thats a 20% odd slower than you are seeing....

I agree with you Keith.. I think the stop is the issue as much as anything else...

Cheers
Pete

Thanks a bunch for the help and comparisons guys!

Time to do a compression test, time to make an adaptor for the tester.

I'll let you know!Okay so figure this. (oh oh! I've been thinking about these responses thanks Al and all)

White smoke = unburnt atomized fuel and /or low compression. If there where to be firing at the wrong time this would be an opportunity for white smoke. Or perhaps the cam timing somehow slipped. I've done an "eyball" check of the cam timing, that is that I had a peek at the colored links on the chain in what the manual says should be the TDC position of the chain and compared that to the cam lobe postion, both lobes off the valves when the chain comes to TDC tells me that the cam and chain are at least in sync... Ahh right?

Okay the next thought is that the chain/sprocket may have slipped on the crank, I am assuming this is held in place by a rather large Key. (the book doesn't show too much of this aspect of the timing chain so I am unsure) Can these motors actually slip timing?

Next thought is a false signal from the CPS, it's got the flywheel to get it's information from several (5?) holes at each TDC how does the motor tell which is number one? I'll have to go back and look at the operating strategy. Given that the ECU relies only on the CPS to tell it where the heck it's at can this information become distorted enough to prevent the engine from running even if the CPS is functioning?

I'm going to have a look at he flywheel, the best i can next opportunity to see if something wierd is going on, Also I'll look into a better what to figure TDC on #1, I think there is a "better than eyeball" way to test it without pulling the front cover..

On another note it does rattle and complain when squirting ether directly into the intake manifold but it does not fire.. Makes me wonder about cam timing and the compression.

Alrighty then.. We have more details...
I checked and double checked the timing. The chain and the sprockets seem to be in order nothing broken or looking particularly out of whack. The timing marks on the chain and upper sprocket seem to correspond to TDC #1 cylinder based on the position of the lobes on the cam.
Still not enough compression to start the thing. Then I noticed while cranking over to TDC a slight hissing sound when coming onto a compression stroke. It sounded like it was coming from the crankcase. So I stuck the trusty stethiscope down the dipstick hole and sure enough it's coming from below.
Next I pulled the intake manifold and had my wife crank the car over while I held my hands over each intake port.. Seems half of the ports are blowing out half the time...

Head gasket? Or a big crack?
I'm pulling the head now unless someone can tel me the timing can actually slip on these things?

Hi Keith,

I cant see how the timing could slip on a TD5 really, unless the tensioner was to fail, and thats not likely.

I took my head off, stripped, rebuilt and refitted it a while back.

The links for a step by step are all on this thread. (photos etc)

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/good-oil/6...placement.html

Good luck
Pete

Well the head's off..

It ain't pretty... Seems somewhere along the line a Stud and nut of the 6MM variety had gotten into #2 cylinder. It was in the intake manifold when I found it.
Subsequently said stud would hold the #2 intake valve open occasionally, apparently the running rough bit. The valve is bent and the seat gone.

Surprisingly the piston isn't horrible and the bore is fine.

#'s 1,2 3 and four had nice clean pistons, #5 being the only nice, dry and carboned up piston of the bunch. Indicating a failed head gasket across four cylinders. Funny #5 was the only intake port behaving normally.

Where the stud/nut came from is anyones guess. I don't use them and don't think I removed any from the engine when I got it. Might have happened at the wrecker when they dismantled it..

So off to buy a new head.... and double check the bottom end.

Any suggestions on a good source?

You've all been of great assistance and support! Cheers to all! Hopefully it's been at least an entertaining if not educating thread.