Thread: Radiator Stuffed and water pump too

Originally Posted by stevo

Well when I finished work noticed a pool of red stuff under the car at the front, topped up with water to get me home.

After looking for the leak it was coming from the top of the radiator through the fins plus also noticed water pump seal is also leaking, now to look on the bright side it will make it easier to clean out the intercooler.

Is there any after market ones that can be bought in the Brisbane area or have to get one from a LR shop, had just done the head gasket a month ago so thinking a reaction may have taken place between the coolant and combustion gas,

Hi Stevo,

We fit heaps of Rads to D2 Td5's, with or without head problems. Also waterpumps, a common failure. I think that the head gasket failure you experienced recently possibly could've pressurised the cooling system a little too much, but still, it isn't all that uncommon. Get rid of that red stuff and put in the green stuff. That red OAT that LR used is, IMHO, contributing to the radiator and waterpump sales....
Genuine radiators are cheap through LR, and so are waterpumps. Aftermarket rads are way more expensive, and as they use plastic tanks also, it isn't any better than the factory one IMHO.

JC

thanks for that I did a water pump about three years ago and did a search on the subject of oat verse the green stuff may go that way as it never stays in the cooling system for long

I am conviced that the red cat coolant corrodes rads.Seen it too many times. Pat

The subject of coolants is one which I am constantly involved in.

There is no such thing as "Red" coolant and "Green" coolant any more.

There are generally OAT, organic acid technology coolants, or organic additive coolants and glycol based coolants.

They can be any colour of the rainbow and the manufacturers make all sorts of claims, such as "can be mixed with any coolant"

Well, they are wrong. dead wrong.

Mix two of the incompatible ones and you will turn you coolant into acid,
which will eat your radiator, cylinder head and alloy parts.

Some of the latest types will eat the solder in copper radiators as they are designed to be used in alloy systems with plastic tanks with no solder or copper present.

The subject has even got so specialised now that there are acidic and alkaline flush products to be used depending on which type of coolant you used last.

The moral of the story?

When you vehicle is serviced, make sure they use the coolant type originally specified by Land Rover for your vehicle.

Not the colour.

AND if the coolant type IS changed, make sure a complete, thorough flush is performed.

A quick check a week after a change is done is to remove the header tank or radiator tank cap and wipe a finger around under the rim.
If it comes out grey or black you have a big problem.

If you have a low coolant alarm and it starts to go off for the first 5 to 10 minutes a few weeks after work has been done on the cooling system, do the finger wipe test as many workshops and garages are not as aware of the potential problems regarding coolant mixing as they should be.

The low coolant alarm probe will detect this grey/ black deposit straight away


Davy

Originally Posted by Davy

The subject of coolants is one which I am constantly involved in.

There is no such thing as "Red" coolant and "Green" coolant any more.

There are generally OAT, organic acid technology coolants, or organic additive coolants and glycol based coolants.

They can be any colour of the rainbow and the manufacturers make all sorts of claims, such as "can be mixed with any coolant"

Well, they are wrong. dead wrong.

Mix two of the incompatible ones and you will turn you coolant into acid,
which will eat your radiator, cylinder head and alloy parts.

Some of the latest types will eat the solder in copper radiators as they are designed to be used in alloy systems with plastic tanks with no solder or copper present.

The subject has even got so specialised now that there are acidic and alkaline flush products to be used depending on which type of coolant you used last.

The moral of the story?

When you vehicle is serviced, make sure they use the coolant type originally specified by Land Rover for your vehicle.

Not the colour.

AND if the coolant type IS changed, make sure a complete, thorough flush is performed.

A quick check a week after a change is done is to remove the header tank or radiator tank cap and wipe a finger around under the rim.
If it comes out grey or black you have a big problem.

If you have a low coolant alarm and it starts to go off for the first 5 to 10 minutes a few weeks after work has been done on the cooling system, do the finger wipe test as many workshops and garages are not as aware of the potential problems regarding coolant mixing as they should be.

The low coolant alarm probe will detect this grey/ black deposit straight away


Davy

Hi Davy,

I actually mentioned 'red' and 'green' in my post above as a generic comment, as the OE LR coolant IS red/pink. A sure sign it has been changed for the better is usually that it is no longer red or pink. I have seen way too many early rad failures in Td5's, which have NEVER had anything but red LR OAT coolant in the system. We do not use this type, and to date have never had a repeat rad failure or water pump etc, in about 7 years...
I remain as always to be convinced that their red OAT stuff is actually any good

JC

The Texaco/Caltex OAT coolant has had a known issue in the past with certain types of plastic gaskets (The inhibitor in it reacts and softens them, leading to the infamous leaks in the US on certain V6 Chevs with their intake manifold gaskets)
A redesigned gasket solved this. Bad design on GM's part.
It also had problems on the same engines with some radiator caps not sealing properly, people not checking the coolant, the level dropping and a filthy rusty sludge results from a reaction with the cast iron and the inhibitor when exposed to a lot of air.
These problems have supposedly been addressed with a slight change in the inhibitor.

All the current V8 Chevs in Holdens use this coolant, (and I think the new V6 too) so there are a lot of engines here in Australia running the same coolant now. Has anyone heard of any problems with newer Holdens yet and their coolant ?? (genuine question)
The Texaco OAT coolant is also factory approved for Cummins, Mack, Isuzu, etc in new engines, and CAT use the same basic stuff with some nitrates added for cavitation errosion protection.

Maybe I'm just lucky, my very late build Tdi has had OAT in it from new, or at least well before I bought it and (so far) no issues.
BTW, an OAT or HOAT inhibitor coolant should be a lot kinder to pumps and seals compared to one with a lot of silicates. The silicates are quite abrasive to seals. Maybe there is an incompatibility with the seal material and the inhibitor in TD5's similar to the Chev V6 manifold gasket ?

It sounds like that for an OAT to do its thing properly the cooling system needs to be in excellent shape at all times.

This is a pretty good view on the Dexcool (Texaco/Caltex/Land Rover Long Life OAT) debacle in the US from a cooling system repairers viewpoint
Draft?DEX-COOL 2007, Part 1: Revising A Less-Than-Accurate Report
Draft?DEX-COOL 2007, Part 2: Revising Continues, But What's 2-EHA?
Draft?DEX 2007, Part 3: Now It's All Up To The Judges and Juries
Draft?DEX 2007, Part 3: Now It's All Up To The Judges and Juries

When I talk of red or green it's because I normally talk to people that get lost when you talk tech.If you read my posts I always recomend that people get the rad serviced by a specailist first up to get it done right and use green Long life gold,nulon and not cat red.I am against all long life coolants,I don't care what the makers claim no rad in any vehicle can go 5 years without being serviced,I think the reason why we see so many head troubles on this forum is because of it and I see no cost saving at all leaving it that long. Pat

WELL SAID DAVY I HAVE BEEN A RADIATOR REPAIRER FOR JUST OVER 30 YEARS AT A NATRAD FRANCHISE AND I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU ON MIXING & THE LONG LIFE 5 YEAR CRAP IF PEOPLE WANT TO PUT IT IN NO WORRIES BUT CHANGE IT EVERY 12 MONTHS HAVE DONE IT TO MY OWN CARS FOR 25 YEARS AND HAVE NEVER HAD A RADIATOR OR WATER PUMP FAIL DUE TO CORROSION. WHEN I FLUSH MY SYSTEM HAVE ONLY EVER USED FRESH WATER SOMETIMES THINK THE FLUSH STIR UP MORE CRAP THAN THERE WORTH IN MY OPINION