ZF replacement/overhaul options

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

impeller and turbine maybe?

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Most likely!
Getting the names right for internal torque converter bits is stretching my terminology past its elastic limit :p

The TC arrived back on Tuesday - all reco'd and painted BLUE. Almost too nice to take out of the box and wrap my grubby mitts around.

Its now back in the transmission, and and almost bolted back up to the engine. I was super paranoid about doing damage to the trans, so spent ages making sure that everything was lining up right and going together without too much force.
By just jacking and wriggling there is now about a 3mm gap at the bottom of the bellhousing, and about 6mm at the top. I'm guessing that its just catching on the dowels at approx 3 and 9 o'clock position. I've got one of the torque converter bolts in but not tightened, so I'm pretty sure I should be OK to put in the rest of the bellhousing bolts and just gently pull it together evenly
Is there anything I might be missing? I checked that there is nothing jammed in the top between the engine adapter plate and the bellhousing (like wiring looms or breather tubes), and I'm assuming if its this close that everything on the TC will already be located properly.

Steve

are you sure you got the torque converter on properly? i had similar a sonario, and when i forced it that last 3-5mm, i broke the ears off the gearbox oil pump input gear.

Please double check now, rather than later, they should go in with no force.

Andy

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Originally Posted by andrew e

Please double check now, rather than later, they should go in with no force.

Andy

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Totally Agree .... Double check // Should need NO force to close the gap .... :(

AND make sure the Mating surfaces of the bellhousing and the motor block is SPOTLESSLY clean


Mike

Thanks guys.
It was late last night so I just secured everything and went to bed.

What I'd found was that if I moved the trans back a couple of mm and took out the one converter bolt I've got fitted that I could rotate the converter freely back and forth with my finger.

Should that be the case or should should there be some resistance?

I'm guessing that the converter should be locked into the oil pump drive and I shouldn't be able to rotate it as easily as I can now.

Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steveG

Should that be the case or should should there be some resistance?

I'm guessing that the converter should be locked into the oil pump drive and I shouldn't be able to rotate it as easily as I can now.

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I don't know ... as I havn't fitted a rover box before ... but have done plenty of other brands // Autos & manuals ... and they all have one thing in common ... If you have to force it // your about to stuff it up :(



Pull the box backwards and refit the converter // check that it is seated all the way back and locked into place



If you want to check before fit ........

Use a ruler to measure the distance between the face of the converter and the face of the bellhousing // compare this to the measurement of the face of the Motor block and the face of the flex plate ... This measurement will tell you if you have the correct space (gap / distance) to mate the whole lot together ... and ensure that your not "Binding" the torque converter up and forcing it to fit


Mike

Thanks - The more I think about it the more I'm convinced that the converter isn't in properly. Wasn't much deeper than about 10mm into the bellhousing :bangin:
I'll attack it again tonight when I get home - hopefully I haven't done anything nasty to it already. I was pretty scared and gentle with it so hoping it should be OK.

This is my first auto fit - done a few manuals over the years - but never an auto.

Steve

The TC will spin quite easily but if it is not engaged properly you will destroy the pump cog in minutes or less once it's runing.
If you pull it off and then re insert the TC while slowly turning it you will feel it drop in and engage. Those cogs are a sod to replace.

Tonight I pulled the trans back a bit and took the one bolt out of the TC.

I turned the TC by hand with a bit of rearwards pressure for what seemed like about 3/4 of a turn. Had just about given up and was starting to think about pulling the whole lot out again and starting from scratch when I felt it engage.
I could still turn it, but there was a definite drag/drive feeling rather than the free spinning I'd had earlier.
The trans mated up nicely with just a wriggle so I'm pretty sure its OK.

Thanks again guys for helping me avoid a very expensive stuff up.

Steve

Hi,

if the converter is not locking the problem will be in the autobox not the converter, either the valve body (stuck valve) or maybe cross leaking from the 3 sealing rings inside the govenor body.

when the converter lockup clutches fail, it will still try to lock and you will hear this at low throttle but will slip on hard throttle.

ref the converter refitting, read here, from our web site :

Check List for fitting ZF Autobox

Please note that a good 50% of our "warranty returns" are due to two basic installation errors.

1)debris and contamination in the oil cooler and oil cooler lines, even if you have flushed them out this is no guarantee they are clean, if the old box has suffered a bad failure you would be wise to replace these.

2)broken oil pump, by not fitting the torque converter correctly, read below.

Assembly

Check engine to bellhousing and Autobox to transfer case dowels are all fitted.

One of the most common causes of failure is the torque converter not being located correctly onto the pump before fitting causing the pump to be broken on start up. To avoid this we would suggest that you stand the autobox upright and lower the torque converter into the bellhousing and once home to do a dimensional check to confirm this using the list below showing the autobox code and the height you are looking for measured from the bellhousing face to the torque converter feet or flange that the flexplate is bolted to. Once the torque converter is inserted and checked make sure it does not fall forward when offering the autobox up to the engine.
With the autobox fitted to the engine, check that the converter will rotate freely and has a small amount (about 2mm) of end float. Bolt the converter to the flex plate using loctite or similar. Ensure the breather vents well away from the exhaust.

Oil Fill

Always use a good quality oil, preferably a Dextron III or similar. Put the transfer case in neutral and fill. Start the engine, the oil level will drop immediately, top back up straight away. Move the shifter lever up and down through the gears slowly whilst checking the oil level and topping up as required. Once the level has stabilised, put the transfer case in gear and the unit should now be picking up drive, this is indicated by the engine revs dropping when put in Drive.

Set up

If the vehicle is a Disco I or Range Rover Classic under no circumstances drive with the kickdown cable disconnected, as this will cause premature autobox failure.

Ensure that the shift assembly is set correctly and full travel of the shifter and engagement of all gears is positive, partial shift will cause premature autobox failure.

If the vehicle is a Disco I or Range Rover Classic you may want to adjust the kickdown cable if you want to fine tune the shift pattern, the looser the cable the softer and earlier the shifts, the tighter the cable, the harder and later the shifts.

Torque Converter Depth Table

The box code is the last 3 digits of the second number down on the name plate on the left hand side of the autobox.

Box Code.....................Depth in mm

061.................................. 22

064....................................22

065....................................27

332....................................51

593....................................51

699....................................51

727....................................27

728....................................83

740....................................51

741....................................51

742....................................51

744....................................18

748....................................18

747....................................27

757....................................27

759....................................27

763....................................83

764....................................27

765....................................27

766....................................96

767....................................27

768....................................83

769....................................83

Thanks Dave - excellent info.

At light throttle I could see the RPM drop just after the 4th gear change when it was meant to lock up, but at 100km/h any extra throttle would cause the RPM to increase independent of road speed.

I guess I'll see tomorrow when I get it back on the road if the converter overhaul has fixed it - otherwise I guess its back to the trans specialist for another look.

Steve