Complete Diff Locker options thread

Hey all.

In regards to lockers I really can't express just how amazing the Ashcroft lockers are. I purchased mine directly from 'Ashcroft uk', delivered to my door for $1700 AUS. Front and rear. These lockers are the best thing u could put in a landy, they are guaranteed un-breakable.. They surpass the arb or any similar locker for dead, I had 4.14 gears installed at the time of rebuild, the gear sets were also Ashcroft, they quality of these parts are incredible, you seriously cannot go past Ashcroft, I'm there number one fan..

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Originally Posted by Jeff

I think Ashcroft sell the ARB locker, not a copy, just it is cheaper than buying one here, just as it is cheaper to buy ARB lockers in the US.

Jeff

:rocket:

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Ashcroft have their own design air locker but it's only available for the Rover and P38 style diffs.

No Sals version.

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Originally Posted by mistajoel

Kaiser lockers! Steer well clear...

They sound good on paper, its a good theory. But a mate of mine has them in his defender... they are horrible! Granted they work amazingly well in the bush, but on road they are terrible, have to drive completely different, and on the highway they are just lethal

Maybe they'd be better in an auto, but corners, parking, roundabouts, taking the power off while moving make them jerk and grab something shocking in a manual, at 100kmh if you lift off at all, they reverse drive inside themselves and grab onto one wheel before the other and send you off sideways...

The only lockers i could recommend are ones that can disengage completely and work as a standard diff on road,,.

__________________
I only bother worrying when it stops leaking oil...usually means it's run out..

'96 Disco 300tdi

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I wouldn't use one in the front, only the rear.
One of the boys up in the North West has them front and rear and he reported the same as your mate. *(same bloke ?)

I asked Dave Ashcroft and he said they worked well in their workshop 90, but it's an auto.
He then started to get dodgy reports back when fitted in manuals.

It seems the Kaiser doesn't like sudden on/off throttle applications when fitted front and rear.

[edit] One thing overlooked and not addressed by Nekarth/Kaiser is oil suitability.
Nekarth claim use whatever the car maker suggests, but with the very similar Weissmann Locker oil type was critical.
Any friction modifiers commonly used for LSD's would lead to a very erratic locker, most commonly a situation called 'popping' where the rollers would suffer a stick/slip type phenomenon. This would also happen with some conventional diff fluids too.

Weissmann have started production again of their locker and have had a specific oil blended (they call it Snake Oil :D)

What it's frictional characteristics are I can only guess at, although I suspect something similar to a manual trans fluid where the friction modifier's coefficient of friction increases as the roller/case speeds get close to each other to ensure correct locking without any slipping or popping.

As I understand Detroit lockers, they are "LOCKED" when driving in a straight line, they then "UNLOCK" when turning, returning to a normal open type diff.
Which means if for instance you were 4Wdriving up say Dampier Fire Trail out of Bendethra the Detroit lockers would unlock on the several switchback turns encountered on this trail, meaning you only have 2WD and will go nowhere on this steep and slippery trail.
In this situation you would be better served by a LSD and certainly better served by a manual Locking diff, ARB, Ashcroft, etc., Regards Frank.

TANK- I have to dissagree with you on the detroit locker, it unlocks to let the out side wheel turn faster/over run, i go up some pretty nasty stuff and the back end just keeps pushing, my understanding is it has to be a wide turn for it to unlock, if i reverse on gravel doing a tight full lock turn the outside wheel bites and skids in the gravel[reversing out of a car park], my 110 is an auto with a true trac in the front

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tank

As I understand Detroit lockers, they are "LOCKED" when driving in a straight line, they then "UNLOCK" when turning, returning to a normal open type diff.
Which means if for instance you were 4Wdriving up say Dampier Fire Trail out of Bendethra the Detroit lockers would unlock on the several switchback turns encountered on this trail, meaning you only have 2WD and will go nowhere on this steep and slippery trail.
In this situation you would be better served by a LSD and certainly better served by a manual Locking diff, ARB, Ashcroft, etc., Regards Frank.

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According to the makers, in the situation above, the diff will only unlock if the the surface is hard enough to apply sufficient friction for the diff to unlock (i.e. on a steep, slippery trail you still have a locked diff). If it is open in the turn and loss of traction occurs, it will lock within a quarter of a turn of the slipping wheel.

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Originally Posted by rick130

Ashcroft have their own design air locker but it's only available for the Rover and P38 style diffs.

No Sals version.

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According to their website, they do sell ARB diff locks as well as their own. However their one seems to be out of stock.

Jeff

:rocket:

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Originally Posted by ugu80

According to the makers, in the situation above, the diff will only unlock if the the surface is hard enough to apply sufficient friction for the diff to unlock (i.e. on a steep, slippery trail you still have a locked diff). If it is open in the turn and loss of traction occurs, it will lock within a quarter of a turn of the slipping wheel.

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Yes what these systems do including the lock rite which is also very good is they allow any wheel to overrun, a wheel can only overrun when they are powered from somewhere other than the engine, eg the ground, so as you go around a corner the outside wheel travels further so in the locker the axle putting in more spin can spin at any rpm freely. If the engine catches upto or exceeds the outside wheel it will lock up again. This means your inner wheel is your only drive wheel in a corner allowing it to break traction easily from the engines power, engaging the locker. All quite simple really but dynamite off road, compared to an air locker I would go mechanical every time. (but only in the rear!)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rick130

I wouldn't use one in the front, only the rear.
One of the boys up in the North West has them front and rear and he reported the same as your mate. *(same bloke ?)

I asked Dave Ashcroft and he said they worked well in their workshop 90, but it's an auto.
He then started to get dodgy reports back when fitted in manuals.

It seems the Kaiser doesn't like sudden on/off throttle applications when fitted front and rear.

[edit] One thing overlooked and not addressed by Nekarth/Kaiser is oil suitability.
Nekarth claim use whatever the car maker suggests, but with the very similar Weissmann Locker oil type was critical.
Any friction modifiers commonly used for LSD's would lead to a very erratic locker, most commonly a situation called 'popping' where the rollers would suffer a stick/slip type phenomenon. This would also happen with some conventional diff fluids too.

Weissmann have started production again of their locker and have had a specific oil blended (they call it Snake Oil :D)

What it's frictional characteristics are I can only guess at, although I suspect something similar to a manual trans fluid where the friction modifier's coefficient of friction increases as the roller/case speeds get close to each other to ensure correct locking without any slipping or popping.

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the bloke i know has got a green 110 td5 with a white roof... got them installed by Chris @ AutoIQ...

He installed the rear first, then we did a test run, worked brilliantly offroad (jeffry's track) but jerky/grabby/noisy onroad.

Then with the front in, it simply doubled the problem... :o

I will pass on the hint about the oil though.. :)

__________________
I only bother worrying when it stops leaking oil...usually means it's run out..

'96 Disco 300tdi

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Originally Posted by F4Phantom

Yes what these systems do including the lock rite which is also very good is they allow any wheel to overrun, a wheel can only overrun when they are powered from somewhere other than the engine, eg the ground, so as you go around a corner the outside wheel travels further so in the locker the axle putting in more spin can spin at any rpm freely. If the engine catches upto or exceeds the outside wheel it will lock up again. This means your inner wheel is your only drive wheel in a corner allowing it to break traction easily from the engines power, engaging the locker. All quite simple really but dynamite off road, compared to an air locker I would go mechanical every time. (but only in the rear!)

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I remember reading the much maligned 4wd action on a diff locker comparo and their recommendation was for an auto locker in the rear and a manually activated unit in the front.