Thread: Puma Drive Line Slop Measurements & Clatter

In my opinion, Defenders have far too much drive train slop/backlash! I've recorded a measurement of sorts by jacking up one wheel at a time, and measuring the free travel at the circumference of the tyre. It doesn't measure backlash or identify where the play originates from, merely an indication of slop.

I've done this with my 2007 PUMA in the following modes (with handbrake OFF)...
Centre Diff OPEN
Centre Diff LOCKED
HIGH Range
LOW Range
Each of the 6 FORWARD and REVERSE Gears
All that with a REAR wheel lifted, and then a FRONT wheel lifted
I also measured movement with the handbrake ON (for the rear wheel up) to indicate diff, axle spline play. (Only 35-40mm here)

The results are in a spreadsheet, but the following trends might be of interest...
Play increased with each gear shift (Gear 1 least to gear 6 highest)
More play in HIGH range than LOW range
More play centre diff OPEN than LOCKED

The worst was 380mm travel 6th gear, high range open centre diff! That,to me, is a rediculous amount of free play.

The reason I did all this is because from new the Defender exhibits a violent drive train clatter under some circumstances. Low range, locked on VIC High Country trails has been the most obvious, and it occurs most noticeably between gear changes (eg 2nd to 3rd). As measured by the above, 2nd gear play is 90mm (rear wheel up). Through neutral, the play increases to 225mm...and that's where the clatter starts. You can hear the shafts clattering back and forth, and at that stage you'll grate the gears...it simple can't mesh cleanly because of the movement. If the centre diff was OPEN this wouldn't happen since the propshafts aren't fighting each other.

I suspect the main play might be in the transfer intermediate shaft, but I would appreciate anyone who can shed some light on it please. It is very difficult to replicate what happens to demonstrate to the dealers, and I suspect that is just the Land Rover design specs anyway.

Surely that amount of play is unnecessary, and causes shock loads throughout all driveline components.

I know you could shim out a lot of that sort of play with old Range Rovers, but maybe someone out there can provide some information please?

Cheers
Brid

Originally Posted by TimNZ

Hi Bird, I had the same rattle noise in low range that you have described, turned out to be the clutch. The anti rattle springs were very loose.

Cheers,

Tim

Thanks Tim
This was a lot more violent than the clutch rattle (which I also had). I 'm pretty sure it has to do with there being a lot more free play in neutral than in 2nd & 3rd.

It has only been a problem when LOCKED and driving on firm fire trails and at gear change. Plenty of hard work in the Simpson, and because there was no wind up in the sand, I suspect that is why I didn't get any clatter. I feel that while I need to be locked on the steep fire trails, I am getting transmission wind up on the firm bits. As soon as the clutch goes in on gear change, suddenly some of that wind up is released. Without referring back I think my measurements were 90mm free wheel travel (Low 2nd)...225mm (neutral)...115mm (3rd gear). If I don't wait a fair while until the violent back clattering stops, it can't get into 3rd cleanly, and mostly you don't have that luxury.

Brid