Thread: Lucas ignition amplifier replacement by Bosch 024

Originally Posted by Utemad

Hi BeeUtey.

When you do these conversions for your customers, do you do it to replace dead modules or is there an expected improvement over a working module?

I have relocated my standard module from the dizzy (MY95 Disco) to the inner guard and have a spare module for emergencies from a wrecked later model that is the factory remote mount version which looks the same but remote on a heatsink.

Others have claimed improvements but was just wondering if this is worth doing when the factory one isn't dead.

Supercheap quoted a bit over $60 ordered from Bosch just for added info for people.

In good condition the standard amp/coil set-up works well on petrol, and OK on LPG without lean cruise. However since converting LR's (D1's especially) to LPG I have had a 30% failure rate (at least) in these things, even on new cars just out of the dealers. They are very marginal.

Back in 1996 I had one call from a customer stuck in Collins St Melbourne, caravan on the back, because his brand new D1 failed to go on either fuel. I spoke to some mechanics north of Adelaide who used to see D1's towed back to the stealers every day for dead ignition fixes. So I adapted this conversion from another vehicle I was doing it for, and it has proved very reliable and strong. And the amp is available from just about any car parts outlet or dealer in the country. Not that I have had to replace any yet. That's right, not one has failed and been brought to my attention. And I have done about 100 over a range of vehicles.

BTW other vehicle have included P76's, Valiants, Dodge trucks, Land Cruisers, Starfire Coronas, Datsuns and almost anything else on points. I machine off the points cam and press on a star rotor, usually off a Chrysler dissy (4, 6 or 8 cyl), wire up a Bosch module/coil set and that's the end of points burning for ever. Once I even made a V8 rotor out of two 4 cyl Sigma rotors, carefully machined out and teeth interlocking. Fiddly but fun.

Basically on a D1/RRC I would offer the upgrade as insurance against Lucas Disease to save the regular "Why doesn't it go?" phone call within a few months. So about 1/2 were fitted after death or partial failure of the Lucas item. Some never got it and continue to run well.

So, if you have a spare Lucas amp by all means stick with the original, just I personally have no faith in them.

Originally Posted by Utemad

Hi BeeUtey.

When you do these conversions for your customers, do you do it to replace dead modules or is there an expected improvement over a working module?

I have relocated my standard module from the dizzy (MY95 Disco) to the inner guard and have a spare module for emergencies from a wrecked later model that is the factory remote mount version which looks the same but remote on a heatsink.

Others have claimed improvements but was just wondering if this is worth doing when the factory one isn't dead.

Supercheap quoted a bit over $60 ordered from Bosch just for added info for people.

Hi Utemad. I think you will find your ignition module from Supercheapo will be a chinese copy of the OEM Lucas STC1184 module. If packaged Bosch a fake I think. In all the modules Bosch make they don't have a swapout for the STC1184 which says a lot about the Lucas setup.

What draws me to bee uteys project is it economically deals with the weak and unreliable nature of the Lucas module. I have had one major failure and an anoying miss at a one speed/revs caused by a dodgy amp module.

Remember the module is the backbone to lighting things up in terms of the period of time that the coil is turned on (dwell) and when (based on the signal it gets from the dizzy). The module in a dizzy system (no ECU to regulate timing) is what monitors the coil dwell to ensure the target current from the coil is always reached.

This energy delivery is pretty important in one coil having to deal with 8 cylinders as opposed to more modern multi-coil setups of up to one coil per cylinder. The coil is responsible for delivering up the required amount of energy at the required dwell, particularly important at higher revs. However I suspect if you installed any half decent old oil filled electronic coil the stock Lucas module would cook whereas a matching module like the BIM024 would not blink using that same coil.

I haven’t got my head around transformer style coils but apart from maybe overkill, it seems the medium energy ones recover more quickly and may be better suited to single dizzy one coil setups in a V8 than higher energy coils. That said this is bee uteys territory and expertise.

Thanks BeeUtey. I will probably do this as it is quick and easy and as you say it removes a weak spot if nothing else. I do have lpg/petrol.

Originally Posted by cockie55

Hi Utemad. I think you will find your ignition module from Supercheapo will be a chinese copy of the OEM Lucas STC1184 module. If packaged Bosch a fake I think. In all the modules Bosch make they don't have a swapout for the STC1184 which says a lot about the Lucas setup.

I meant the BIM024 module was $60+ ish from Supercheap via Bosch. The LR module I have priced before and was told no Bosch replacement and whatever other brand they offered was around $250ish!. I only wanted one as a spare so pulled the one I do have from a wreck for nothing.

You can kill these things though. My brother has one running his 351 Landcruiser and the first one died quickly so he moved it to a cooler spot and it has been fine for the past 10 years or so like that. His engine bay gets seriously hot though.

Originally Posted by Utemad

You can kill these things though. My brother has one running his 351 Landcruiser and the first one died quickly so he moved it to a cooler spot and it has been fine for the past 10 years or so like that. His engine bay gets seriously hot though.

That's right, the early ones fitted to the dissy tended to fry after 160,000km or so. That's why mine are all mounted remote from the block. Mind you I have fitted quite a few new 024 modules to original Ford/Holden dissy's and I suspect they have better heat tolerance than the original ones.

Following Cockie55's post I would recommend too to use the MEI coils, they are plenty for the app.

Here are some energy test comparisons (measured in millijoules) for the "transformer style" coils (standard female style HT connector) mentioned here as being compatible with the BIM024 module (tests done using the BIM024 and at identical voltage and current).

HEC 715 - 92 mJ
MEC 717 - 70 mJ
MEC 723 - 121 mJ

The consensus seems to be that the MEC style coil will "recharge" target “dwell” quicker (compared to HEC) and therefore maybe more suitable for dizzy driven single coil V8’s.

Interestingly I think Ford only put the MEC 723 into V8’s (717 went into 6's and others) and the 121 mJ the 723 produces is very impressive. However as there is no such thing as a free lunch I would be thinking twice about how much more heat/stress on other parts, this coil produces......but then again in a low reving RV8 the MEC 723 / BIM024 combo might well be a grand option.

I fitted one two weeks ago and so far have run 2 tanks of LPG through it. It certainly has more power on LPG now. Very noticeable. I also got 30km more out of the 1st tank and 20km more out of the 2nd than usual. Not bad for a 55L tank.

Petrol I've only tried in short bursts so don't know about that yet.

A very cheap and worthwhile upgrade.

Tried doing some research on ignition modules and coils. The consensus I came up with is it’s a black art not thoroughly understood by many, including myself, though this doesn’t stop people (including myself) contributing their opinions whether right or wrong!

Finally came across some good info. Here are the links :

High Energy Ignition Upgrade
Ignition Coil Energy Testing

though the main enlightener is this one (well for me at least) :
Ignition Coil Dwell Calibration

here’s some info cherry picked from these articles :







7 Amps of coil primary current

2 Amps of coil primary current

Sparks shown are using the same HEI coil at 13 volts and firing it into a spark gap of 5 mm. The difference was the coil current of 2 vs 7 Amps.



The Wiring : (for the BIM 024 module)



The connections on the module are :
• 3 Negative input from pickup (the sensor in the distributor)
• 7 Positive input from pickup (the sensor in the distributor)
• 15 12V for module.
• 16 Coil negative.
• Case Vehicle Ground

I can’t remember where I read it but I believe the HEC coils are for hall effect dissys and won’t work with the bim024 module. The MEC are for VR (variable reluctor) dissys and so work with the bim024.

So I will get a bosch module and coil. The ign module is a no brainer BIM024. the coil will end up getting the MEC717. it is the same as the MEC718 but has a female connection for the dissy lead instead of the male on the MEC718. due to the drop off in coil current of the MEC723 after 2011 rpm I will steer away from it. the reason for the swapover is for lpg so want to ensure spark with maximum oomph being delivered throughout rev range. So although it can deliver more energy the MEC723 can’t do it at all the times when you need it. using the MEC717 means there is plenty of headroom throughout the rev range.

Also, read it enough times on many sites (so the weight of numbers means it must be true) that these high energy systems came about because of emissions control and were specifically made to ignite a lean mixture.

does anyone know the torque/rpm curves for a 3.9 / 4 / 4.6 are?? would be good to see them against the spark graphs above to try to match the best one.

generally I dont go much over 3500rpm but at times will go to 4500 (not even sure what it can rev to?)

So given that, I like the look of the MEC723 the main reason being I run through a relay straight to the coil so I get 14.3 at the coil looking at the graphs that means the fattest spark through the rev range I mostly work in (between 2k and 3k)